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Q:
Regarding the tragedy in Newtown, CT last week: What do you all think would be the appropriate response to this horrific act? Do you think any laws need to be changed/implemented, and if so, what? Please keep your answers well-reasoned and polite - no mindless rants.

from huntfishtrap on 12.18.12

Answers (15)

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from Redfishernolen wrote 1 year 29 weeks ago

"The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"(NRA)

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from Bob Hansen wrote 1 year 30 weeks ago

Hi...

Well, here's one starting point. This happened just this week...and not far from me.

a 20-year old high school dropout who was being trained in a trade at our local Job Corp told three of his schoolmates that he was going home for a gun, and would return to class to "shoot up everyone", after which he said he was going to commit suicide.

Well, those three schoolmates told Campus Security, who located him hiding behind one of the Campus buildings. They turned him over to the Sheriff's Department.

He's currently in jail...under $15.000 bail.

Now THAT'S a starting point...!!

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from jcarlin wrote 1 year 30 weeks ago

You know, I'm still having trouble with coming to terms with this tragedy. The thought of being in the positions those parents are in is appalling, and every time I think of it, the same pit opens in my chest. I have kids from 4-15 that have gone to school all week. However, I'd as soon worry about a lightning strike.
What has occurred to me is that the anti-gun crowd (I don't like the "progressive" "gun-control crowd" label), really doesn't think we're the monsters they're attempting to portray us as. You don't expect some 50 million plus people to sheepishly hand in their arms because you, unarmed, told them to if you honestly believe they're all dangerous, irrational people waiting for a trigger to set them off. It further makes me wonder what there is in the liberal psyche that makes them question whether they themselves can handle the responsiblity of a firearm. I don't understand where the expectation of self-reliance went in that party, but see that this is another symptom.
I don't know where all this is heading, but I fear for the nation.

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from MDhunter1 wrote 1 year 30 weeks ago

huntfishtrap....i understand what you are saying. however...me being a huge 2A supporter...i really do not think that lunatics like that shooter should be able to "make" people worry and start saying things that are irrational. i see absolutely no reason that mag restrictions should be placed. do not mis-understand me i am very sorrowful about what has happened....but i do not want to let some evil SOB affect my freedoms and rights.
-Jack

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from nrbw54 wrote 1 year 30 weeks ago

I think that a rapid response may not be a good one. I believe that our lawmakers need to wait a little while before they consider introducing any bills to allow everyone to cool down and think more clearly. A rapid response blessed us with the Patriot Act, take that as you will.

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from huntfishtrap wrote 1 year 30 weeks ago

-I agree with jcarlin, I think in theory the most effective way of stopping these kinds of tragedies would be to intercept the people how are most likely to commit them, rather than just trying to take away the weapon. I don't know how we could do that, however, without turning into a repressive, discriminatory nation. A tough issue, for sure.
-As far as MDhunter1's point goes, I would have to disagree. Yes, given enough time, you can do as much damage with 3 10 shot clips as with one 30 shot clip, for example. But it really is a question of time in shootings like this - time for teachers and students to get away to a more secure area, and time for the cops to arrive. And which is faster, and requires less thought, shooting 30 shots from one clip, or from 3?

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from MDhunter1 wrote 1 year 30 weeks ago

I do not think mag restrictions will help...people don't understand that the same damage can be done with multiple 10 rd mags as 30 round mags.. i do not want a replay of the clinton gun ban.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from jcarlin wrote 1 year 30 weeks ago

I can't say that I think security guards are going to help. Particularly if we're talking about one. These things are generally planned out in advance. There's a lot of outdoorsman and shooters on this site. Without getting into it in any kind of planning. Do you think one person, armed or not, in a role where several hundred adults a day cause him no problems for essentially the entire career of 99.9% of thos in his role is going to be alert and ready enough to stop a determined person when it comes to it? I'm not talking about responding to shots fired if an incident brakes out. But if you're planning, suprising him is job number one. Do you think the average security guard would have a chance? I don't.
I don't think giving up liberties works either. It may be, it almost certainly is a societal ill. It's a societal ill which as the president pointed out has had a huge uptick in his term. I don't claim to know why.
What I hate to say is we should all look to our own environments and question what's going on in our own homes. Maybe we should question not just are own resposibility, but that of those adults who reside with us. I'm not casting blame here. The mentally ill are not going to police themselves by the nature of thier affliction. I don't believe this poor mother thought THIS would ever happen.
Still, how many of us have someone in our lives, or in our homes, that we know shouldn't have firearms, yet have our own? Like most of you I secure mine. However, if you gave an adult time alone in the house and the right tools I don't think that my cabinet has a real chance. Keeping out curious kids? Sure. Making theft more difficult, particularly in a rushed moment? Certainly. Keeping a determined 20 something who has 8 hours a day or more alone in my house from getting to them if he's determined to do so? Not likely. I'd be embarrassed for the person if it could.

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from JM wrote 1 year 30 weeks ago

-I like the idea of magazine restrictions, but the problem is that there are so many already out there.
-I've never been a fan of gun shows. I've been to a few and there are always a few people I see that shouldn't be around guns...

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from huntfishtrap wrote 1 year 30 weeks ago

I agree with all that has been said so far, and I don't think gun bans will help with violence either (just look at Chicago). However, I think the gun-rights supporters need to give the other side...something. Otherwise I could easily see public opinion turning against gun ownership in general, and that could be disastrous.
I feel like the NRA and other groups need to come out and accept something like a limit on the capacity of magazines, which I believe wouldn't really be a hardship to most hunters and sport shooters (really, when's the last time you needed 30 shots to kill a coyote?). If we give the anti-gun people something fairly minor like that, I think the general public will be more inclined to overlook continued resistance to an assault-weapons ban, for example.
Just my 2 cents, and feel free to disagree - there are certainly no easy answers.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from DSMbirddog wrote 1 year 30 weeks ago

I don't have a crystal ball but some of the things I see that may be on the table are magazine limits, gun shows, mental health issues, and the assault weapon ban. I don't believe they will get it all but they will get some. As others have said it is the person that does the killing. You can't legislate morality and values and the bottom line is that by outlawing certain items you will not have any significant impact on gun violence.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from sangcoacc wrote 1 year 30 weeks ago

Maybe we should require all new teachers be veterans of our armed forces and arm them. Perhaps even active duty military could be teachers. ANY school, including colleges and universities would have to have 51% or greater of faculty as veterans to get all the funding they are so accustomed to getting. Safer schools. Disciplined schools. Better learning environment and education. Win-win idea.

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from sangcoacc wrote 1 year 30 weeks ago

We can not legislate away evil. Would we be talking about new or tougher motor vehicle laws had this coward chose to race through a child filled play ground? Of course not. Why pay for armed guards in the schools? Train the teachers who are already there to defend these situations and provide them with the tools to do the job.

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from JHP wrote 1 year 30 weeks ago

Schools, malls and other gathering places need to hire off-duty police from their local community to be in uniform and armed. Nothing else that i see can deter a person from committing a mass shooting.
I think these shooters are cowards and will always look for the soft target. Do not banks, sporting events and others hire armed police? Are our children not worth police protection to??
Teachers throwing themselves at amrmed crazies is a act of useless heroism.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from JM wrote 1 year 30 weeks ago

I feel something does need to be done, but I do not know what(I'm not sure if anyone knows). Obviously criminals don't follow the laws, so I do not know if adding new laws would help.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report

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from JHP wrote 1 year 30 weeks ago

Schools, malls and other gathering places need to hire off-duty police from their local community to be in uniform and armed. Nothing else that i see can deter a person from committing a mass shooting.
I think these shooters are cowards and will always look for the soft target. Do not banks, sporting events and others hire armed police? Are our children not worth police protection to??
Teachers throwing themselves at amrmed crazies is a act of useless heroism.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from sangcoacc wrote 1 year 30 weeks ago

We can not legislate away evil. Would we be talking about new or tougher motor vehicle laws had this coward chose to race through a child filled play ground? Of course not. Why pay for armed guards in the schools? Train the teachers who are already there to defend these situations and provide them with the tools to do the job.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from jcarlin wrote 1 year 30 weeks ago

I can't say that I think security guards are going to help. Particularly if we're talking about one. These things are generally planned out in advance. There's a lot of outdoorsman and shooters on this site. Without getting into it in any kind of planning. Do you think one person, armed or not, in a role where several hundred adults a day cause him no problems for essentially the entire career of 99.9% of thos in his role is going to be alert and ready enough to stop a determined person when it comes to it? I'm not talking about responding to shots fired if an incident brakes out. But if you're planning, suprising him is job number one. Do you think the average security guard would have a chance? I don't.
I don't think giving up liberties works either. It may be, it almost certainly is a societal ill. It's a societal ill which as the president pointed out has had a huge uptick in his term. I don't claim to know why.
What I hate to say is we should all look to our own environments and question what's going on in our own homes. Maybe we should question not just are own resposibility, but that of those adults who reside with us. I'm not casting blame here. The mentally ill are not going to police themselves by the nature of thier affliction. I don't believe this poor mother thought THIS would ever happen.
Still, how many of us have someone in our lives, or in our homes, that we know shouldn't have firearms, yet have our own? Like most of you I secure mine. However, if you gave an adult time alone in the house and the right tools I don't think that my cabinet has a real chance. Keeping out curious kids? Sure. Making theft more difficult, particularly in a rushed moment? Certainly. Keeping a determined 20 something who has 8 hours a day or more alone in my house from getting to them if he's determined to do so? Not likely. I'd be embarrassed for the person if it could.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from MDhunter1 wrote 1 year 30 weeks ago

I do not think mag restrictions will help...people don't understand that the same damage can be done with multiple 10 rd mags as 30 round mags.. i do not want a replay of the clinton gun ban.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from DSMbirddog wrote 1 year 30 weeks ago

I don't have a crystal ball but some of the things I see that may be on the table are magazine limits, gun shows, mental health issues, and the assault weapon ban. I don't believe they will get it all but they will get some. As others have said it is the person that does the killing. You can't legislate morality and values and the bottom line is that by outlawing certain items you will not have any significant impact on gun violence.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from huntfishtrap wrote 1 year 30 weeks ago

I agree with all that has been said so far, and I don't think gun bans will help with violence either (just look at Chicago). However, I think the gun-rights supporters need to give the other side...something. Otherwise I could easily see public opinion turning against gun ownership in general, and that could be disastrous.
I feel like the NRA and other groups need to come out and accept something like a limit on the capacity of magazines, which I believe wouldn't really be a hardship to most hunters and sport shooters (really, when's the last time you needed 30 shots to kill a coyote?). If we give the anti-gun people something fairly minor like that, I think the general public will be more inclined to overlook continued resistance to an assault-weapons ban, for example.
Just my 2 cents, and feel free to disagree - there are certainly no easy answers.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from JM wrote 1 year 30 weeks ago

I feel something does need to be done, but I do not know what(I'm not sure if anyone knows). Obviously criminals don't follow the laws, so I do not know if adding new laws would help.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from sangcoacc wrote 1 year 30 weeks ago

Maybe we should require all new teachers be veterans of our armed forces and arm them. Perhaps even active duty military could be teachers. ANY school, including colleges and universities would have to have 51% or greater of faculty as veterans to get all the funding they are so accustomed to getting. Safer schools. Disciplined schools. Better learning environment and education. Win-win idea.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from nrbw54 wrote 1 year 30 weeks ago

I think that a rapid response may not be a good one. I believe that our lawmakers need to wait a little while before they consider introducing any bills to allow everyone to cool down and think more clearly. A rapid response blessed us with the Patriot Act, take that as you will.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from MDhunter1 wrote 1 year 30 weeks ago

huntfishtrap....i understand what you are saying. however...me being a huge 2A supporter...i really do not think that lunatics like that shooter should be able to "make" people worry and start saying things that are irrational. i see absolutely no reason that mag restrictions should be placed. do not mis-understand me i am very sorrowful about what has happened....but i do not want to let some evil SOB affect my freedoms and rights.
-Jack

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Bob Hansen wrote 1 year 30 weeks ago

Hi...

Well, here's one starting point. This happened just this week...and not far from me.

a 20-year old high school dropout who was being trained in a trade at our local Job Corp told three of his schoolmates that he was going home for a gun, and would return to class to "shoot up everyone", after which he said he was going to commit suicide.

Well, those three schoolmates told Campus Security, who located him hiding behind one of the Campus buildings. They turned him over to the Sheriff's Department.

He's currently in jail...under $15.000 bail.

Now THAT'S a starting point...!!

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Redfishernolen wrote 1 year 29 weeks ago

"The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"(NRA)

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from JM wrote 1 year 30 weeks ago

-I like the idea of magazine restrictions, but the problem is that there are so many already out there.
-I've never been a fan of gun shows. I've been to a few and there are always a few people I see that shouldn't be around guns...

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from huntfishtrap wrote 1 year 30 weeks ago

-I agree with jcarlin, I think in theory the most effective way of stopping these kinds of tragedies would be to intercept the people how are most likely to commit them, rather than just trying to take away the weapon. I don't know how we could do that, however, without turning into a repressive, discriminatory nation. A tough issue, for sure.
-As far as MDhunter1's point goes, I would have to disagree. Yes, given enough time, you can do as much damage with 3 10 shot clips as with one 30 shot clip, for example. But it really is a question of time in shootings like this - time for teachers and students to get away to a more secure area, and time for the cops to arrive. And which is faster, and requires less thought, shooting 30 shots from one clip, or from 3?

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from jcarlin wrote 1 year 30 weeks ago

You know, I'm still having trouble with coming to terms with this tragedy. The thought of being in the positions those parents are in is appalling, and every time I think of it, the same pit opens in my chest. I have kids from 4-15 that have gone to school all week. However, I'd as soon worry about a lightning strike.
What has occurred to me is that the anti-gun crowd (I don't like the "progressive" "gun-control crowd" label), really doesn't think we're the monsters they're attempting to portray us as. You don't expect some 50 million plus people to sheepishly hand in their arms because you, unarmed, told them to if you honestly believe they're all dangerous, irrational people waiting for a trigger to set them off. It further makes me wonder what there is in the liberal psyche that makes them question whether they themselves can handle the responsiblity of a firearm. I don't understand where the expectation of self-reliance went in that party, but see that this is another symptom.
I don't know where all this is heading, but I fear for the nation.

0 Good Comment? | | Report

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