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July 09, 2010
State Wildlife Agency Regulations: Right or Wrong? - 20
As a hunter, I spend every spare second in the woods trying to replicate that indescribable adrenalin rush from my very first close encounter with a whitetail buck. In recent years, I’ve had the opportunity to venture far away from my home state of Kentucky to chase whitetails in numerous states across the country. During these road trips, one of the first things a hunter learns is that every state’s deer hunting rules, regulations, and bag limits are almost always different. Furthermore, many of these hunting laws undergo major changes from time to time. In some cases, hunters who live and hunt in these areas often complain that the state wildlife agencies have made major miscalculations when adding or changing a particular deer hunting regulation. When you stop and listen to all of these different viewpoints, it kind of makes you wonder who is actually right? For example, recently the Kentucky Department of Fish and Wildlife Resources (KDFWR) made some adjustments with the state’s deer hunting bag limits and regulations. Several counties located in the southeast region were moved into a different zone, which ultimately will have an impact on how and when hunters can harvest does. Starting this fall, hunters will not be allowed to legally tag a doe during the annual modern gun season. In addition, there will only be designated portions of the archery and muzzle-loading seasons that will permit does to be harvested. As you can imagine, this decision has generated some debate among area landowners and hunters. In this case, I feel the state’s deer biologists were right on target when recommending these zone modification and regulation changes. A few years ago, this region was hit pretty hard by a bluetongue outbreak, which dramatically thinned down overall herd numbers. Plus, large portions of this region encompass rugged mountainous terrain with little to no agricultural land. We simply don’t have the high deer concentrations that generally exists in other parts of the state and that is why these changes were needed. The KDFWR currently holds open regional conferences and studies annual hunting logs to gather accurate information from the field before making any regulation changes. In my opinion, all state wildlife agencies need to involve hunter input and conduct extensive in the field research before changing or making any new hunting rules. We all know there are major regional differences within each state and a one size fits all mentality with deer management will not get the job done. On that note, I would love to open a discussion on the BBZ about your state wildlife agency initiated programs and deer management. Do you feel that your state’s deer management programs are currently working or do changes need to be made? |
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Comments (20)
Oh man this will be interesting there is a lot of unrest out there. WI is engaged in what is termed in the press as "deer wars" with many hunters demanding all state biologists be fired. In my humble opinion many modern day deer hunters do not understand wildlife management science resulting in the WDNR feeling the need to micro manage hunter behavior by requiring earn a buck regulations, establishing termination zones and opening and closes of multiple seasons throughout the fall. None of which has very many happy in WI. In spite of the fact WI is now a leading producer of massive trophy bucks.
later,
charlie
Charilie Elk,
A lot of hunters in my state complain about the conservative 1-buck harvest limit. However, Kentucky has been producing some impressive numbers of top-heavy trophy bucks. The KDFWR has been working really hard to improve the quality of hunting in our state.
On the other hand, I still feel that hunter input should be considered before changing or making any regulations. Hunters spend a lot of time in the field and often live in the regions where they hunt. They are capable of monitoring deer behavior on a daily basis and their insight can be very valuable. For example, hunters began seeing a lot less deer in the southeast region of our state and started sharing this info with the KDFWR. As a result, modifications were made this season to limit the doe harvest. Hunters and the state wildlife agencies need to work together.
Travis Faulkner
Outdoor Life
ttfaulkner@msn.com
Travis
Here in WI we have deer management meetings and committees to ad nauseam seems absolutely no one agrees on anything. Every single meeting I have gone to has featured screaming yelling and threats directed at the WDNR. At one time I believed like you in hunter input which to some extent is important to understand what is socially acceptable. But in the end in a perfect world the professional biologists should make the decisions.
That being said; the state biologists need to do a better job communicating the deer herd's needs to the public.
later,
charlie
Charlie Elk,
I agree these discussions can generate a lot of emotion, especially in an open discussion type setting. The KDFWR has issued hunter logs on the backs of tags/lic to gather info from hunters. You simply record how many bucks, does, turkeys, and other types of wildlife you're observing in the field. This input is used in combination with other biological studies and regional deer harvest numbers.
In the end, the biologists make the final decision, but the hunters are still involved in the process. I can imagine how crazy some of these open meetings can be, especially with some people! However, it's also good to listen to other viewpoints. A little arguing is not always a bad thing.
On the other hand, I have heard horror stories in some states where hunters have felt that decisions were ultimately being made by the insurance lobby and money. These hunters claimed that their state promoted dramatic increases in overall doe harvest inside of areas that had low deer numbers. Who knows if any of that is true, but these guys were fighting mad over the issue. They wanted less doe harvest and even argued that season should temporarily be closed for all deer in those areas. Have your ever came across any stories like that?
Travis Faulkner
Outdoor Life
ttfaulkner@msn.com
State rules are the best option. Sure they'll be wrong some of the time, but at least they do change, there is discussion on local levels, and it can be custom fit. If your state or county is geared toward the guide and hospitality aspect and not public hunting, they can fit to that more to public access or vice versa. Fed rules would be one sized fits all. Blanket regs would be right for about 5% of situations, local opinion would mean nothing, and state laws change easily while federal regs might be idiotic forever. This could all be moot. There could easily be antler restrictions built into the health care bill that no one has found yet.
I don't have any problem with the changes. I just hope they hold strong and enforce it. I can't stand loosing a nice deer to a trespasser or out of season hunter. A like you said Travis, Kentucky has been producing some pretty nice trophy bucks the last few years.
Travis you wrote- "I have heard horror stories in some states where hunters have felt that decisions were ultimately being made by the insurance lobby and money. These hunters claimed that their state promoted dramatic increases in overall doe harvest inside of areas that had low deer numbers. Have your ever came across any stories like that?"
My answer- Yes that would be Wisconsin. There are so many outlandish accusations being hurled around here. Those meetings I referenced are no fun and I would describe them as rather embarrassing to hunters.
There is no evidence I know of proving any insurance industry reps are lobbying to kill deer. Think about it for a minute - insurance companies are totally content to simply charge more premium after all that is what makes them more profit.
The real deer killing lobbyists would be the state's agriculture organizations. Which is easily verified by checking the public records. In the interest of full disclosure as a tree farm owner I support the Ag lobby. They are correct there are too many deer anyone with a trained eye can out and see the browse lines. Over browsing is rampant in the vast majority of areas.
Remember when considering meetings giving everyone a say to set season and bag limits--
A moose is a horse designed by a committee.
later,
charlie
Charlie Elk,
That is so true. However, I am not trying to imply that everyone should have equal say. It would be impossible to get any large group of people to agree 100% on anything. The KDFWR in my state has done some phenomenal work, especially the deer biologists. I still feel that the hunter logs and listening to hunter input is important.
For example, many people think that the entire state of KY is just crawling with massive-racked bruisers. There are parts of the Bluegrass State that look like IL and have a lot of agricultural land. These regions are stacked with groceries and prime cover, which translates to high deer numbers. On my end of the state, there are miles of rugged hardwoods mountains with very little farmland. Our numbers are good, but not even close to some of the other regions.
Therefore, applying the same harvest limits and regulations to both regions would not be very practical.
It would be difficult for our state biologists to spend extensive time in the field across all of the state's regions. This is exactly where hunting logs, hunter feedback, and harvest totals come in handy. Most hunters are not up to speed on deer biology, but they can still be helpful with the deer management process.
At the same time, deer biologists need to do a better job educating the general public about why they have set certain harvest limits and seasonal restrictions. Many hunters in my state hate the strict one buck harvest limit, but these same guys love the fact that bigger bucks are now consistently being tagged year after year.
As a young boy, I can remember when simply seeing a doe in my neck of the woods was a big deal. Now, hunters can find fair to above average hunting opportunities across the entire state. Our state's program has came a long way. I would like to know what problems hunters in your home state are having with their wildlife agency. What is causing these heated debates?
Travis Faulkner
Outdoor Life
ttfaulkner@msn.com
I don't know much about other states but KY does a great job managing our deer herd, IMHO. I agree with the restrictions on teh south eastern part of the state. In many of the areas I hunt I saw drastic reductions in the numbers of deer because of the blue tounge disease. This will be a big help in restoring those numbers.
Travis, I would have to agree with you. The Kentucky Department of Fish and Wildlife have done a great job incorporating new regulations. Good Article!
Travis,
I too remember the days you refer to when seeing a deer got you a write up in the local paper and if you actually killed one you became the stuff of legends. Those were the bad old days for sure.
With the high deer populations in most areas you would think hunters would be a very happy lot. Well not so fast. Enter state legislature, WDNR, and every what they call stakeholder wanting the deer managed their way. WDNR is mandated to reduce a 1.7 million herd down to a 763,000 herd this is one heck of a decrease requiring some serious hunting. So WDNR sets up an antlerless only "T" hunt (T stands for termination)on the 3rd weekend in Oct which happens to be THE WEEK of maximum buck activity- bowhunters become livid because they too can only shoot antlerless during this season.(angry meetings start in bow hunting circles) WDNR schedules a T hunt in Dec and this make the snowmobilers livid plus almost no ones hunts Dec season. (angry meetings start in snow user circles) In spite of this season scheme the deer herd continues increasing so WDNR institutes earn a buck restrictions (EAB)meaning you can not shoot a buck until you have killed and registered an antlerless deer. This makes virtually all hunters very mad resulting in the first wave of very angry meetings. Deer herd stabilizes and begins to decrease. But not enough so an expansion of the 9 day gun season to 16 days is proposed and it is widely opposed by hunters because 16 days of hunting interfered with tradition.
In the 2009 gun season for some reason the harvest dropped by 20% and in some areas 30%. This happened in many areas around the country also. A quirk? I am not sure. But in WI the hunters immediately blamed the WDNR for not counting the deer right, setting too high of harvest by shooting too many does, and then blame went all over from insurance industry to farmers, wolves, bears, coyotes etc. Some wanted the deer biologists all fired.
I spend a lot time afield year round in many different areas and almost without exception the areas I have been to show signs of very heavy deer browsing. Especially this last winter being cold with early snow caused the deer to yard and over browse in the north this can be very deadly with a herd over carrying capacity. My personal feeling is the WDNR is right there are too many deer for the habitat. If we get some more tough winters nature will take care of the over population and those bad old days will then return. This I fear is what many hunters do not understand.
later,
charlie
Charlie Elk,
I always love reading your posts on the BBZ and this last one is no exception. It's amazing how wild stories and rumors can start flying around. In the end, a person can walk on water and part the sea, but it's about impossible to keep everyone happy. Some people just like to argue and gripe. With deer management, many people feel that they are experts on the subject. They have watched some hunting show or read one article and now they are ready to fight about it.
However, hunters still need to share what they are seeing in the field with state deer biologists. Sudden decreases in overall herd numbers or an increase in smaller racked bucks can be important info. In addition, hunters witnessing deer population increases in regional pockets can be important data as well. The main goal needs to be what is best for each region's deer herd.
My state has done a phenomenal job restoring our deer herd, but a lot of people still complain. Some of these agruments stem from valid complaints or questions. On the other hand, some of these heated debates have no logic at all. One that has popped up lately in my neck of the woods has to do with doe harvest regulations. The state dramatically reduced the doe harvest limit to combat lower her numbers in some of the mountainous regions.
However, they did allow does to be harvested during the last few days of the late muzzle-loading season. Hunters are complaining that many of the does that will be tagged during late December will probably be pregnant from the Nov. Rut. Why would the state allow this to happen when they are trying to cut back on doe harvest to increase numbers? This question is at the center of the debate.
Travis Faulkner
Outdoor Life
ttfaulkner@msn.com
Thanks for your kind words Travis. You are right hunters should have input into our seasons and game departments should pay attention to our observations not discounting them out of hand.
In addition to the game departments head biologist there are many down line employees who work the office cubicals more than work in the field and to make up for the lack of field time they watch a computer screen. This screen becomes their window of reality turning them into cubical experts. (they help craft season schemes)
In the ranks of hunters there are those who choose an ambush location set a permanent stand which they continue to use season after season with no variation in their hunting strategy, giving them a very narrow view of the deer herd. Like the cubicle expert this deer stand expert is not seeing the full picture only the window view from the stand. Deer management decision should not be based on only the perception of either one.
In Wisconsin there are probably a lot of deer stand experts who arrive on firearm opening weekend without having done any serious scouting, with the exception of checking their stand the previous weekend. In 2009 they saw a reduced number of deer from their stand leading them to think the deer numbers are down when in fact just over the rise the deer were all bedded watching during legal shooting hours.
My cameras are out all the time I use them for management purposes, you've got to know how many deer and age structure of the herd. During the 09 WI firearm season the deer numbers being picked up on the cameras dropped off to almost nothing. At the end of the season the numbers of deer photographed returned to normal, this is a high number. Yet in spite high deer numbers in this area the hunters killed 22% fewer deer by seasons end.
I ask myself why-
The area's hunters are aging and choosing to sit in those permanent stands the entire 9 day season. The deer quit moving on their own within 3 hours of the opener. Hunters stay on stand for fear they will scare deer to neighbor.
Many deer figure this all out and do not move during daylight hours for 9 days.
Plus there are those idiots who think they need a sanctuary on their property further deterring deer movements. Ask any department's deer biologist what they think of sanctuaries and you will get an earful.
Back to your starting question - It depends.....
later,
charlie
Clarification in the last paragraph of my post;
Sorry for using the term idiot; just prior to posting I had read a piece by HSUS urging landowners to close their lands to hunters thereby providing a sanctuary. My blood pressure had apparently not returned to normal prior to writing the above.
later,
charlie
Charlie Elk,
Excellent points. Many of these "hunters" you're talking about are also known for drinking all night and getting into the stand late the next morning. Others show up late and leave early. With that being said, accounts from these guys are not going to be that accurate. However, a real hunter that hunts multiple stands, keeps trail-cameras in the woods, and scouts throughout the year is usually aware of what is going on. You're also 100% right about the office workers that stare at a computer screen all day and try to make decisions. There is no substitute for being in the field and making 1st hand observations.
By the way, I've not read the article you mentioned about closing sections of land, which is probably best. I would like to have a good weekend and garbage like that could get my blood pressure up too!
Travis Faulkner
Outdoor Life
ttfaulkner@msn.com
KENTUCKY'S biggest mistake on deer management was when they have a one buck limit without a locking tag.This may be the only state that have more bucks taken illegally than recorded bucks.KENTUCKY can afford large sculptures of bull elk and deer at wildlife centers {that get money from liscense sells} and nice trucks for wardens but when i see dry boots on wet mornings they wear coming into a resturant midmorning then i know they aren't out in the field.
6phunter,
I have heard of hunters who check in bucks under other peoples' tags. They simply buy a tag for their wife, nephew, or friend that does not hunt. Next, these guys simply tele-check the buck by phone and take it to the butcher or taxidermist. A locking tag would be a great addition to our state's regulations/requirements. In a way, I wish the state would also go back to the old check-in stations. This would also help eliminate a lot of illegal activity. By the way, have you got some honey-holes lined up yet for the upcoming season?
Travis Faulkner
Outdoor Life
ttfaulkner@msn.com
Travis it's seldom I enter the season without prior knowledge of a good buck in the area,I hunt several western kentucky counties each year always searching for permission year round.I bow hunt right up to the last day finding bucks that survived the rout of hunters,last season i never loosed an arrow, but it was exciting knowing several bucks survived .Maybe this season things will be in my favor,but it doesn't matter, it's the hunt that I enjoy. good luck to you, I hope that you find what youre hunting .
6phunter,
I know exactly what you're talking about. My son and father stay in the woods with me around the clock. One of our favorite parts of hunting (besides spending time together) is trying to find and pattern a good buck. The chase can be just as fun as the catch!
In fact, we were able to locate some really nice bucks a few days after New Years. It was just before they had dropped their antlers. We captured over a dozen good pictures in the snow of three different shooter bucks. Hopefully, when we check our cameras on Monday there will be some more good pictures. I wish you the very best this season too. Keep us posted on your summer scouting efforts and what you're seeing in the field right now.
Travis Faulkner
Outdoor Life
ttfaulkner@msn.com
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Oh man this will be interesting there is a lot of unrest out there. WI is engaged in what is termed in the press as "deer wars" with many hunters demanding all state biologists be fired. In my humble opinion many modern day deer hunters do not understand wildlife management science resulting in the WDNR feeling the need to micro manage hunter behavior by requiring earn a buck regulations, establishing termination zones and opening and closes of multiple seasons throughout the fall. None of which has very many happy in WI. In spite of the fact WI is now a leading producer of massive trophy bucks.
later,
charlie
Charilie Elk,
A lot of hunters in my state complain about the conservative 1-buck harvest limit. However, Kentucky has been producing some impressive numbers of top-heavy trophy bucks. The KDFWR has been working really hard to improve the quality of hunting in our state.
On the other hand, I still feel that hunter input should be considered before changing or making any regulations. Hunters spend a lot of time in the field and often live in the regions where they hunt. They are capable of monitoring deer behavior on a daily basis and their insight can be very valuable. For example, hunters began seeing a lot less deer in the southeast region of our state and started sharing this info with the KDFWR. As a result, modifications were made this season to limit the doe harvest. Hunters and the state wildlife agencies need to work together.
Travis Faulkner
Outdoor Life
ttfaulkner@msn.com
Travis
Here in WI we have deer management meetings and committees to ad nauseam seems absolutely no one agrees on anything. Every single meeting I have gone to has featured screaming yelling and threats directed at the WDNR. At one time I believed like you in hunter input which to some extent is important to understand what is socially acceptable. But in the end in a perfect world the professional biologists should make the decisions.
That being said; the state biologists need to do a better job communicating the deer herd's needs to the public.
later,
charlie
Charlie Elk,
I agree these discussions can generate a lot of emotion, especially in an open discussion type setting. The KDFWR has issued hunter logs on the backs of tags/lic to gather info from hunters. You simply record how many bucks, does, turkeys, and other types of wildlife you're observing in the field. This input is used in combination with other biological studies and regional deer harvest numbers.
In the end, the biologists make the final decision, but the hunters are still involved in the process. I can imagine how crazy some of these open meetings can be, especially with some people! However, it's also good to listen to other viewpoints. A little arguing is not always a bad thing.
On the other hand, I have heard horror stories in some states where hunters have felt that decisions were ultimately being made by the insurance lobby and money. These hunters claimed that their state promoted dramatic increases in overall doe harvest inside of areas that had low deer numbers. Who knows if any of that is true, but these guys were fighting mad over the issue. They wanted less doe harvest and even argued that season should temporarily be closed for all deer in those areas. Have your ever came across any stories like that?
Travis Faulkner
Outdoor Life
ttfaulkner@msn.com
State rules are the best option. Sure they'll be wrong some of the time, but at least they do change, there is discussion on local levels, and it can be custom fit. If your state or county is geared toward the guide and hospitality aspect and not public hunting, they can fit to that more to public access or vice versa. Fed rules would be one sized fits all. Blanket regs would be right for about 5% of situations, local opinion would mean nothing, and state laws change easily while federal regs might be idiotic forever. This could all be moot. There could easily be antler restrictions built into the health care bill that no one has found yet.
I don't have any problem with the changes. I just hope they hold strong and enforce it. I can't stand loosing a nice deer to a trespasser or out of season hunter. A like you said Travis, Kentucky has been producing some pretty nice trophy bucks the last few years.
Travis you wrote- "I have heard horror stories in some states where hunters have felt that decisions were ultimately being made by the insurance lobby and money. These hunters claimed that their state promoted dramatic increases in overall doe harvest inside of areas that had low deer numbers. Have your ever came across any stories like that?"
My answer- Yes that would be Wisconsin. There are so many outlandish accusations being hurled around here. Those meetings I referenced are no fun and I would describe them as rather embarrassing to hunters.
There is no evidence I know of proving any insurance industry reps are lobbying to kill deer. Think about it for a minute - insurance companies are totally content to simply charge more premium after all that is what makes them more profit.
The real deer killing lobbyists would be the state's agriculture organizations. Which is easily verified by checking the public records. In the interest of full disclosure as a tree farm owner I support the Ag lobby. They are correct there are too many deer anyone with a trained eye can out and see the browse lines. Over browsing is rampant in the vast majority of areas.
Remember when considering meetings giving everyone a say to set season and bag limits--
A moose is a horse designed by a committee.
later,
charlie
Charlie Elk,
That is so true. However, I am not trying to imply that everyone should have equal say. It would be impossible to get any large group of people to agree 100% on anything. The KDFWR in my state has done some phenomenal work, especially the deer biologists. I still feel that the hunter logs and listening to hunter input is important.
For example, many people think that the entire state of KY is just crawling with massive-racked bruisers. There are parts of the Bluegrass State that look like IL and have a lot of agricultural land. These regions are stacked with groceries and prime cover, which translates to high deer numbers. On my end of the state, there are miles of rugged hardwoods mountains with very little farmland. Our numbers are good, but not even close to some of the other regions.
Therefore, applying the same harvest limits and regulations to both regions would not be very practical.
It would be difficult for our state biologists to spend extensive time in the field across all of the state's regions. This is exactly where hunting logs, hunter feedback, and harvest totals come in handy. Most hunters are not up to speed on deer biology, but they can still be helpful with the deer management process.
At the same time, deer biologists need to do a better job educating the general public about why they have set certain harvest limits and seasonal restrictions. Many hunters in my state hate the strict one buck harvest limit, but these same guys love the fact that bigger bucks are now consistently being tagged year after year.
As a young boy, I can remember when simply seeing a doe in my neck of the woods was a big deal. Now, hunters can find fair to above average hunting opportunities across the entire state. Our state's program has came a long way. I would like to know what problems hunters in your home state are having with their wildlife agency. What is causing these heated debates?
Travis Faulkner
Outdoor Life
ttfaulkner@msn.com
Travis,
I too remember the days you refer to when seeing a deer got you a write up in the local paper and if you actually killed one you became the stuff of legends. Those were the bad old days for sure.
With the high deer populations in most areas you would think hunters would be a very happy lot. Well not so fast. Enter state legislature, WDNR, and every what they call stakeholder wanting the deer managed their way. WDNR is mandated to reduce a 1.7 million herd down to a 763,000 herd this is one heck of a decrease requiring some serious hunting. So WDNR sets up an antlerless only "T" hunt (T stands for termination)on the 3rd weekend in Oct which happens to be THE WEEK of maximum buck activity- bowhunters become livid because they too can only shoot antlerless during this season.(angry meetings start in bow hunting circles) WDNR schedules a T hunt in Dec and this make the snowmobilers livid plus almost no ones hunts Dec season. (angry meetings start in snow user circles) In spite of this season scheme the deer herd continues increasing so WDNR institutes earn a buck restrictions (EAB)meaning you can not shoot a buck until you have killed and registered an antlerless deer. This makes virtually all hunters very mad resulting in the first wave of very angry meetings. Deer herd stabilizes and begins to decrease. But not enough so an expansion of the 9 day gun season to 16 days is proposed and it is widely opposed by hunters because 16 days of hunting interfered with tradition.
In the 2009 gun season for some reason the harvest dropped by 20% and in some areas 30%. This happened in many areas around the country also. A quirk? I am not sure. But in WI the hunters immediately blamed the WDNR for not counting the deer right, setting too high of harvest by shooting too many does, and then blame went all over from insurance industry to farmers, wolves, bears, coyotes etc. Some wanted the deer biologists all fired.
I spend a lot time afield year round in many different areas and almost without exception the areas I have been to show signs of very heavy deer browsing. Especially this last winter being cold with early snow caused the deer to yard and over browse in the north this can be very deadly with a herd over carrying capacity. My personal feeling is the WDNR is right there are too many deer for the habitat. If we get some more tough winters nature will take care of the over population and those bad old days will then return. This I fear is what many hunters do not understand.
later,
charlie
Charlie Elk,
I always love reading your posts on the BBZ and this last one is no exception. It's amazing how wild stories and rumors can start flying around. In the end, a person can walk on water and part the sea, but it's about impossible to keep everyone happy. Some people just like to argue and gripe. With deer management, many people feel that they are experts on the subject. They have watched some hunting show or read one article and now they are ready to fight about it.
However, hunters still need to share what they are seeing in the field with state deer biologists. Sudden decreases in overall herd numbers or an increase in smaller racked bucks can be important info. In addition, hunters witnessing deer population increases in regional pockets can be important data as well. The main goal needs to be what is best for each region's deer herd.
My state has done a phenomenal job restoring our deer herd, but a lot of people still complain. Some of these agruments stem from valid complaints or questions. On the other hand, some of these heated debates have no logic at all. One that has popped up lately in my neck of the woods has to do with doe harvest regulations. The state dramatically reduced the doe harvest limit to combat lower her numbers in some of the mountainous regions.
However, they did allow does to be harvested during the last few days of the late muzzle-loading season. Hunters are complaining that many of the does that will be tagged during late December will probably be pregnant from the Nov. Rut. Why would the state allow this to happen when they are trying to cut back on doe harvest to increase numbers? This question is at the center of the debate.
Travis Faulkner
Outdoor Life
ttfaulkner@msn.com
Thanks for your kind words Travis. You are right hunters should have input into our seasons and game departments should pay attention to our observations not discounting them out of hand.
In addition to the game departments head biologist there are many down line employees who work the office cubicals more than work in the field and to make up for the lack of field time they watch a computer screen. This screen becomes their window of reality turning them into cubical experts. (they help craft season schemes)
In the ranks of hunters there are those who choose an ambush location set a permanent stand which they continue to use season after season with no variation in their hunting strategy, giving them a very narrow view of the deer herd. Like the cubicle expert this deer stand expert is not seeing the full picture only the window view from the stand. Deer management decision should not be based on only the perception of either one.
In Wisconsin there are probably a lot of deer stand experts who arrive on firearm opening weekend without having done any serious scouting, with the exception of checking their stand the previous weekend. In 2009 they saw a reduced number of deer from their stand leading them to think the deer numbers are down when in fact just over the rise the deer were all bedded watching during legal shooting hours.
My cameras are out all the time I use them for management purposes, you've got to know how many deer and age structure of the herd. During the 09 WI firearm season the deer numbers being picked up on the cameras dropped off to almost nothing. At the end of the season the numbers of deer photographed returned to normal, this is a high number. Yet in spite high deer numbers in this area the hunters killed 22% fewer deer by seasons end.
I ask myself why-
The area's hunters are aging and choosing to sit in those permanent stands the entire 9 day season. The deer quit moving on their own within 3 hours of the opener. Hunters stay on stand for fear they will scare deer to neighbor.
Many deer figure this all out and do not move during daylight hours for 9 days.
Plus there are those idiots who think they need a sanctuary on their property further deterring deer movements. Ask any department's deer biologist what they think of sanctuaries and you will get an earful.
Back to your starting question - It depends.....
later,
charlie
Clarification in the last paragraph of my post;
Sorry for using the term idiot; just prior to posting I had read a piece by HSUS urging landowners to close their lands to hunters thereby providing a sanctuary. My blood pressure had apparently not returned to normal prior to writing the above.
later,
charlie
Charlie Elk,
Excellent points. Many of these "hunters" you're talking about are also known for drinking all night and getting into the stand late the next morning. Others show up late and leave early. With that being said, accounts from these guys are not going to be that accurate. However, a real hunter that hunts multiple stands, keeps trail-cameras in the woods, and scouts throughout the year is usually aware of what is going on. You're also 100% right about the office workers that stare at a computer screen all day and try to make decisions. There is no substitute for being in the field and making 1st hand observations.
By the way, I've not read the article you mentioned about closing sections of land, which is probably best. I would like to have a good weekend and garbage like that could get my blood pressure up too!
Travis Faulkner
Outdoor Life
ttfaulkner@msn.com
Travis it's seldom I enter the season without prior knowledge of a good buck in the area,I hunt several western kentucky counties each year always searching for permission year round.I bow hunt right up to the last day finding bucks that survived the rout of hunters,last season i never loosed an arrow, but it was exciting knowing several bucks survived .Maybe this season things will be in my favor,but it doesn't matter, it's the hunt that I enjoy. good luck to you, I hope that you find what youre hunting .
6phunter,
I know exactly what you're talking about. My son and father stay in the woods with me around the clock. One of our favorite parts of hunting (besides spending time together) is trying to find and pattern a good buck. The chase can be just as fun as the catch!
In fact, we were able to locate some really nice bucks a few days after New Years. It was just before they had dropped their antlers. We captured over a dozen good pictures in the snow of three different shooter bucks. Hopefully, when we check our cameras on Monday there will be some more good pictures. I wish you the very best this season too. Keep us posted on your summer scouting efforts and what you're seeing in the field right now.
Travis Faulkner
Outdoor Life
ttfaulkner@msn.com
I don't know much about other states but KY does a great job managing our deer herd, IMHO. I agree with the restrictions on teh south eastern part of the state. In many of the areas I hunt I saw drastic reductions in the numbers of deer because of the blue tounge disease. This will be a big help in restoring those numbers.
Travis, I would have to agree with you. The Kentucky Department of Fish and Wildlife have done a great job incorporating new regulations. Good Article!
KENTUCKY'S biggest mistake on deer management was when they have a one buck limit without a locking tag.This may be the only state that have more bucks taken illegally than recorded bucks.KENTUCKY can afford large sculptures of bull elk and deer at wildlife centers {that get money from liscense sells} and nice trucks for wardens but when i see dry boots on wet mornings they wear coming into a resturant midmorning then i know they aren't out in the field.
6phunter,
I have heard of hunters who check in bucks under other peoples' tags. They simply buy a tag for their wife, nephew, or friend that does not hunt. Next, these guys simply tele-check the buck by phone and take it to the butcher or taxidermist. A locking tag would be a great addition to our state's regulations/requirements. In a way, I wish the state would also go back to the old check-in stations. This would also help eliminate a lot of illegal activity. By the way, have you got some honey-holes lined up yet for the upcoming season?
Travis Faulkner
Outdoor Life
ttfaulkner@msn.com
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appearing in the movie in cameos. There's no word on what roles they'll be playing,
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