Please Sign In

Please enter a valid username and password
  • Log in with Facebook
» Not a member? Take a moment to register
» Forgot Username or Password

King Buck is Not Crowned New World Record

September 23, 2012
King Buck is Not Crowned New World Record - 15

It’s official. Based on the Boone & Crockett scoring system, the buck shot by Johnny King in the fall of 2006 is not the new world record typical whitetail. And the buck’s owner, antler collector Jay Fish, is not a happy camper.

Fish, his wife and son, along with Johnny King had driven 24 hours straight from Wisconsin to Boone & Crockett headquarters in Missoula to hand-deliver the buck to a special panel of B&C scorers. Fish reportedly bought the buck from King for $35,000—thinking it would be a new world’s record. But that gamble didn’t pay off.

On Saturday, I was at B&C headquarters hoping to speak with Fish and King about the buck and the score. But when I heard “180” yelled from somewhere in B&C offices, I knew things had gone south for the Wisconsin clan.

Red-faced and angry, Fish emerged from a conference room at in Missoula. Two separate panels of B&C scorers had determined King’s buck measures 180 as a typical. Fish refused to speak with me, and with a huff, his entourage was out the door.

Ever since King shot the buck with an iron-sighted .30-30 on a family-farm in Wisconsin, the rack and the way in which it was scored has been steeped in controversy. At the core of it all was how the buck should be classified. Is it a typical or non-typical? On most deer, this is a no-brainer, and from afar, the King Buck looks like a typical. But a closer look shows one point on the right side that, according to Boone and Crockett’s Director of Big Game Records, Jack Reneau, is in fact a non-typical point. If the rack was judged as a typical, it would have likely squeaked by Hanson’s world record by an inch or less. But today, four B&C measures affirmed Reneau’s judgement after a special judges panel was called to make a final determination.

After King killed the buck, he had a B&C measurer examine it, not because of the questionable tine, but because a bullet from his hunt had hit the base of the rack. When King went to drag the buck, the antler came clean off. Not getting a clear answer, King met with Jack Reneau who said the deer could be scored with the broken antler, but the right tine could not be scored as a typical point.

After that, King sold the antlers to collector Jay Fish. Fish lobbied hard to get the buck in front of a panel of Boone & Crockett scorers. After a number of magazine articles, photos, videos, and enough blog posts to crash a server, the buck finally had its chance to be scored by a panel of Boone & Crockett scorers. Two, two-man teams of veteran Boone & Crockett scorers each scored the buck independent of one another and each team was told to score it as a typical and non-typical.

After nearly five hours, the judges determined the tine in question on the right side is a nontypical point. At issue is whether or not the tine rises from the main beam, making it an individual point and therefore typical, or does it share a common base with another point making it a non-typical? A press release from B&C states: the third tine on the right antler arises from the inside edge of the top of the main beam, and also arises partially from the base of an adjoining point, thus establishing it as an abnormal point. With this confirmation, two of the rack’s tines must be classified as abnormal points resulting in an entry score well below the current World Record.

Why be such a stickler when it comes to interpreting a buck’s headgear? In short, you need to have standards. And when strictly interpreted, the standards set forth by B&C make sense. “The purpose of the records program was to record the quality of big game in North America,” says Eldon Buckner, chairman of Boone and Crockett Club’s Records of North American Big Game Committee. “The system was designed to represent the most ideal trophy of the species.” Buckner explained that as whitetails have proliferated, so too, have variations in their antlers. And this isn’t the last time something like this is going to come up, Buckner said.

 

Photos courtesy of Boone and Crockett

Comments (15)

Top Rated
All Comments
from retiredpara wrote 1 year 41 weeks ago

Pls read my first post, below.
Furthermore, did OL report that B&C has BANNED the two scorers, one a distinghished 25 year scorer, for recommending that the King Buck be re-scored as a typical? Did any of you watch scorer Ron Boucher's 35 minute video, which prompted B&C's 32 man rule committee to vote to re-score the buck? If any of you shoot a buck that is as perfect as the King Buck, will you score it for yourself as a non-typical? No you won't. There is so much intrigue and backstory, not reported by OL, that is sickening. But hey, you've been brainwashed to "hate the rich" so King and Fish MUST be motivated by money only, therefore are guilty of some crime. How long did King own this buck before being screwed over by B&C, eventually selling it? Hmm? NOT reported by OL or DelHomme, was it? TWO YEARS. One hunter in WI isn't going to convince B&C that this is a record, but KUDOS to Fish, banned scorers Boucher and Cousins, and Deer & Deer Hunting Magazine Editor Dan Schmidt for bringing the real truth to light. In a world of lies, spin, collusion, and cronyism, I had expected more of OL. What a bummer, you are just like every other media outlet.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from retiredpara wrote 1 year 41 weeks ago

OL and Mr DelHomme have not reported the full facts of this buck. If I only read what was reported, I may think as others do. However, this is a sham. The King Buck should be the world record. I suggest all concerned with the full truth to read it over at the Deer and Deer Hunting site, as it isn't being reported here. B&C can change their name to Boone and Crock. The manipulation of the 200 and 2009 scoring standards, changed and inserted into their 2013 record book, in order to exclude this buck is shameful. The species hasn't changed, but Boone and Crock sure has. The King Buck was and remains the record, period. Shame on OL and F$S for taking an exclusive and mis-representing facts when other media were not allowed access. Shameful cronyism, not honest journalism. I am canceling my print subscription tommorrow, and I guarantee I am not alone. The word is out on this shameful misrepresentation of "fact".

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Jerod Henderson wrote 1 year 43 weeks ago

I think if you sell the rack for a profit you lose the right to the fame of the kill. I see that like high fence hunting, In this case he may of harvested the animal in the wild but he still sold it. So if anyone should of got noted for the deer was the owner of the antlers. Oh well sucks for them and the guy out all the bread.

-2 Good Comment? | | Report
from JM wrote 1 year 43 weeks ago

@Montana,
The funny thing is that the Jordan Buck was purchased for $3 at a garage sale...Mr. Fish could still easily make back his $35,000 investment(and more) now that this buck has had so much publicity.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from pudgexl29 wrote 1 year 43 weeks ago

I don't think I would've ever sold thos antlers. Even for that vast sum. It's something to be proud of. It might just be me, but I'd have kept it. And I don't feel bad for Fish either. But to each his own.
Anyways, congrats to King on the great buck.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Inspector D wrote 1 year 43 weeks ago

Record or not this is still an awesome whitetail that any hunter should be proud of. It should be about the animal and the hunter who put the work in to harvest it. It's a shame that some just see it as more dollor signs. @Montana I totally aggree with your the Jordan buck is a big, heavy brute but I still love the Breen antlers. Maybee it's my MN bias :)

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Montana wrote 1 year 43 weeks ago

My favorite of all time is still the Jordan buck, and always will be. Now there is a beautiful rack.
The King buck is a dandy as well, 180 is nothing to sneeze at, a great buck on it's own.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from JM wrote 1 year 43 weeks ago

@Andrew Williams,
I see people selling them all the time(on Ebay etc.). I believe you just need to include the tag originally used to tag the animal, and for antlers you do not harvest you must buy a permit to sell(I am not positive though).

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from vette wrote 1 year 43 weeks ago

If you read the B&C website information the King buck was already panel scored in PA when it was first submitted to B&C. It was determined by the four scorers the point was non typical and the net typical score was in the 180 class.
To quote the website statement: The King Buck was reviewed and scored using the same procedures used to score whitetails since 1950. It’s this consistency over time that makes Boone and Crockett Club’s records a valuable tool for game managers.
A panel of four official measurers personally examined the King Buck in Pennsylvania. On page 41 of the Boone and Crockett Club’s scoring manual, a rule states, “There are instances where a single point comes off the top inside edge of the main beam and is considered an abnormal point.” The panel unanimously determined that a point on the King Buck’s right side fit this description. Resulting deductions lowered the antlers’ final score well below the threshold of a World’s Record.
The trophy was accepted into Boone and Crockett Club’s records as a 180-class typical trophy. The hunter, Mr. Johnny King, later withdrew the buck from the records. King then reportedly sold the rack, presumably as an investment, to Mr. Jay Fish who began a campaign to dispute the score.

Evidently Mr Fish gambled the $35,000 and lost, then went on a campaign to dispute the original score. I've been a B&C scorer for 25 years and had no problem with the NT determination when the manufactured controversy originally surfaced.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Andrew Williams wrote 1 year 43 weeks ago

I don't understand how Mr.King could take the buck and then turn around and sell its' antlers to Mr.Fish.I thought that all states had laws against the selling of any part of a game animal taken on a non-cmmercial hunting license.I may be wrong on that,but I am also wondering what profit there would be for Mr.Fish in this since he didn't have a hand in the taking of this animal.I live,hunt,and fish in Nevada and we have strict game laws in place that prevent things of this sort from happening.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from schmakenzie wrote 1 year 43 weeks ago

Johnny King did well by taking the $35,000.

-1 Good Comment? | | Report
from JM wrote 1 year 43 weeks ago

Like everyone else said, it is a great buck no matter how you score it. With that said, I think this whole process has been a waste of time. The rulebook clearly states that this would qualify as a non-typical rack, so their only hope was that B&C would made an exception to the rules so that they could establish a new world record deer.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Catpool9 wrote 1 year 43 weeks ago

Nonetheless, a most awesome rack of Antler!

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from huntfishtrap wrote 1 year 43 weeks ago

I have no sympathy for Mr. Fish, he gambled, and he lost, simple as that. I would say that IMHO, and I don't claim to be an expert, that the point in question is non-typical.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from 6phunter wrote 1 year 43 weeks ago

IT is what it is,a great buck no doubt,THE HANSON RECORD BUCK will be broken someday and when it happens that buck will be under the same scrutiny as KING'S buck.MR. FISH can go fish while saving up his bucks on the next gamble.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report

Post a Comment (200 characters or less)

from 6phunter wrote 1 year 43 weeks ago

IT is what it is,a great buck no doubt,THE HANSON RECORD BUCK will be broken someday and when it happens that buck will be under the same scrutiny as KING'S buck.MR. FISH can go fish while saving up his bucks on the next gamble.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from vette wrote 1 year 43 weeks ago

If you read the B&C website information the King buck was already panel scored in PA when it was first submitted to B&C. It was determined by the four scorers the point was non typical and the net typical score was in the 180 class.
To quote the website statement: The King Buck was reviewed and scored using the same procedures used to score whitetails since 1950. It’s this consistency over time that makes Boone and Crockett Club’s records a valuable tool for game managers.
A panel of four official measurers personally examined the King Buck in Pennsylvania. On page 41 of the Boone and Crockett Club’s scoring manual, a rule states, “There are instances where a single point comes off the top inside edge of the main beam and is considered an abnormal point.” The panel unanimously determined that a point on the King Buck’s right side fit this description. Resulting deductions lowered the antlers’ final score well below the threshold of a World’s Record.
The trophy was accepted into Boone and Crockett Club’s records as a 180-class typical trophy. The hunter, Mr. Johnny King, later withdrew the buck from the records. King then reportedly sold the rack, presumably as an investment, to Mr. Jay Fish who began a campaign to dispute the score.

Evidently Mr Fish gambled the $35,000 and lost, then went on a campaign to dispute the original score. I've been a B&C scorer for 25 years and had no problem with the NT determination when the manufactured controversy originally surfaced.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Montana wrote 1 year 43 weeks ago

My favorite of all time is still the Jordan buck, and always will be. Now there is a beautiful rack.
The King buck is a dandy as well, 180 is nothing to sneeze at, a great buck on it's own.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Inspector D wrote 1 year 43 weeks ago

Record or not this is still an awesome whitetail that any hunter should be proud of. It should be about the animal and the hunter who put the work in to harvest it. It's a shame that some just see it as more dollor signs. @Montana I totally aggree with your the Jordan buck is a big, heavy brute but I still love the Breen antlers. Maybee it's my MN bias :)

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from huntfishtrap wrote 1 year 43 weeks ago

I have no sympathy for Mr. Fish, he gambled, and he lost, simple as that. I would say that IMHO, and I don't claim to be an expert, that the point in question is non-typical.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Catpool9 wrote 1 year 43 weeks ago

Nonetheless, a most awesome rack of Antler!

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Andrew Williams wrote 1 year 43 weeks ago

I don't understand how Mr.King could take the buck and then turn around and sell its' antlers to Mr.Fish.I thought that all states had laws against the selling of any part of a game animal taken on a non-cmmercial hunting license.I may be wrong on that,but I am also wondering what profit there would be for Mr.Fish in this since he didn't have a hand in the taking of this animal.I live,hunt,and fish in Nevada and we have strict game laws in place that prevent things of this sort from happening.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from JM wrote 1 year 43 weeks ago

Like everyone else said, it is a great buck no matter how you score it. With that said, I think this whole process has been a waste of time. The rulebook clearly states that this would qualify as a non-typical rack, so their only hope was that B&C would made an exception to the rules so that they could establish a new world record deer.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from JM wrote 1 year 43 weeks ago

@Andrew Williams,
I see people selling them all the time(on Ebay etc.). I believe you just need to include the tag originally used to tag the animal, and for antlers you do not harvest you must buy a permit to sell(I am not positive though).

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from pudgexl29 wrote 1 year 43 weeks ago

I don't think I would've ever sold thos antlers. Even for that vast sum. It's something to be proud of. It might just be me, but I'd have kept it. And I don't feel bad for Fish either. But to each his own.
Anyways, congrats to King on the great buck.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from JM wrote 1 year 43 weeks ago

@Montana,
The funny thing is that the Jordan Buck was purchased for $3 at a garage sale...Mr. Fish could still easily make back his $35,000 investment(and more) now that this buck has had so much publicity.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from retiredpara wrote 1 year 41 weeks ago

OL and Mr DelHomme have not reported the full facts of this buck. If I only read what was reported, I may think as others do. However, this is a sham. The King Buck should be the world record. I suggest all concerned with the full truth to read it over at the Deer and Deer Hunting site, as it isn't being reported here. B&C can change their name to Boone and Crock. The manipulation of the 200 and 2009 scoring standards, changed and inserted into their 2013 record book, in order to exclude this buck is shameful. The species hasn't changed, but Boone and Crock sure has. The King Buck was and remains the record, period. Shame on OL and F$S for taking an exclusive and mis-representing facts when other media were not allowed access. Shameful cronyism, not honest journalism. I am canceling my print subscription tommorrow, and I guarantee I am not alone. The word is out on this shameful misrepresentation of "fact".

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from retiredpara wrote 1 year 41 weeks ago

Pls read my first post, below.
Furthermore, did OL report that B&C has BANNED the two scorers, one a distinghished 25 year scorer, for recommending that the King Buck be re-scored as a typical? Did any of you watch scorer Ron Boucher's 35 minute video, which prompted B&C's 32 man rule committee to vote to re-score the buck? If any of you shoot a buck that is as perfect as the King Buck, will you score it for yourself as a non-typical? No you won't. There is so much intrigue and backstory, not reported by OL, that is sickening. But hey, you've been brainwashed to "hate the rich" so King and Fish MUST be motivated by money only, therefore are guilty of some crime. How long did King own this buck before being screwed over by B&C, eventually selling it? Hmm? NOT reported by OL or DelHomme, was it? TWO YEARS. One hunter in WI isn't going to convince B&C that this is a record, but KUDOS to Fish, banned scorers Boucher and Cousins, and Deer & Deer Hunting Magazine Editor Dan Schmidt for bringing the real truth to light. In a world of lies, spin, collusion, and cronyism, I had expected more of OL. What a bummer, you are just like every other media outlet.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from schmakenzie wrote 1 year 43 weeks ago

Johnny King did well by taking the $35,000.

-1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Jerod Henderson wrote 1 year 43 weeks ago

I think if you sell the rack for a profit you lose the right to the fame of the kill. I see that like high fence hunting, In this case he may of harvested the animal in the wild but he still sold it. So if anyone should of got noted for the deer was the owner of the antlers. Oh well sucks for them and the guy out all the bread.

-2 Good Comment? | | Report

Post a Comment (200 characters or less)

bmxbiz