Fall Turkey Dog Questions

November 15, 2009

Fall Turkey Dog Questions - 16

Regular Strut Zone commentator “charlie elk” sent along some questions after our “Finding a Turkey Dog” post. My answers follow here:

Q. When you pick out a pup are there any indicators one should look for? Or is it the luck of the draw?

A. I tend to take bird (turkey) dogs as I choose them, then find a way to utilize their strengths and underplay their weaknesses. Again, I’m just one guy with my own experiences. Breeding is key with other sporting dogs, and it may be true with turkey dogs too — at least solid bird-dog hunting lines can help. I've seen exceptional lines prove out and others fail to live up to the promise no matter what bird dog guys hunt. I imagine this is true for many if they’re honest (and experienced); Labs, hounds, whatever.

Three of my English setters have been from New England woodcock/grouse lines — two were sired by a former National Grouse Field Trial Champion, though I also use(d) them for fall turkey hunting. As with other gun dogs, luck in your pick is a factor. If possible, try to look at the pup early (and as often as possible), then at 7 or 8 weeks old or so if the litter choices haven’t been spoken for. Take a walk with the pup through hunting cover if the owner will allow. Does the little dog key in on you? Is it confident and eager to find scent? If so, flash that checkbook ASAP! Again, all my English setters have had different hunting styles, but I've found a way to hunt autumn turkeys with them all as well (I don't train my dogs to be steady to wing or run, for instance — a factor in turkey dogging; I train them plenty otherwise). My Luna, a California girl, is a work-in-progress, but I like that. She's full of promise, and natural "prey drive." Byrne dogs, bred and trained for fall turkey hunting, are a reliable bet, but also in much demand. There’s a list of interested owners as always. Other guys have success with other breeds, even mixed (the Byrne dogs are of a setter/pointer/Plott hound line of course). I think it’s equally important that the dog handler is also a fall turkey hunter. In the end, turkey dogs find and flush the flock. If you happen to find the flock on your own, the canine flushes it under your direction. The companionship is a factor for me as moving through hunting cover with a gun dog is a pleasure.

Q. Are your dogs able to break up a flock of turkeys in an open snow-covered field? Or does the flock still have a tendency to fly off the same way together? Those birds see me coming and always leave together. Wondering if a dog is helpful with this problem?

A. Snow or no snow, field breaks are generally bad, because the turkeys do exactly as you describe: they move off together as they can see each other moving off. It’s often best to encourage the flock to ease into the woods, which they often do on their own anyway, then bust the group in as many different directions as possible, or to simply find them there in the big woods, and scatter (tougher to see their departing flockmates). Dogs can cover the distance and do that under your direction. That’s the cool thing about turkey dogging — more hunting tactics as part of the tradition we all love.

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from Steve Hickoff wrote 10 weeks 3 days ago

By the way, that's Pete Clare of Turkey Trot Acres in my photo, and his turkey dog Luke from the Byrne line. -S.

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from patrick88 wrote 10 weeks 3 days ago

some of the best hunting dogs ive seen were not expensive breeds of dogs some of mine were just mutts.

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from charlie elk wrote 10 weeks 3 days ago

Thanks Steve, you are being very helpful. I am going to start looking for my canine companion, it is time. Now that I'm stoked not sure I can wait for a Byrne Line pup.
Got the impression the wait is long. May have to go give Turkey Trot Acres a try next fall.
Which leads to other questions -
How long does it take to get a turkey dog pup turkey-ed up to start hunting?
Is your next book how train and hunt turkey dogs?

Speaking of books - where and how would one go about getting one of your books autographed?
My son is in need of your Fall & Winter Turkey book and I want to give it to him for Christmas.
later,
charlie

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from charlie elk wrote 10 weeks 3 days ago

While I'm in 20 question mode-
What is a hard core turkey hunter like you doing living the north fringe of the turkey range? ;-D)
later,
charlie

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from Steve Hickoff wrote 10 weeks 3 days ago

Hey patrick88. Have to agree with you. I've hunted with some great mixed breed dogs.

Charlie: You should definitely consider the Turkey Trot experience. Great hunt, food and people, and it's a super way to start fall turkey dogging.

You other q's: I'm out with all my pups early for the basic stuff (commands; casting ahead through cover), but I'd have to say they really hit their stride on average at 12-18 months, depending when the dog was born, then we refine their game from there with time and experience.

As for your other queries, Ch. 13 in my Fall & Winter Turkey Hunter's Handbook ("The Turkey Dogging Tradition") is 24 pp. long as you know; some ideas on training basics there.

Have floated the idea you propose with several publishers over the years (common in this business). No telling what might happen there. Stay tuned.

Shoot me an email at: hickoff@comcast.net regarding the inscribed book request and we can talk more.

P.S. Northern New England (like Wisconsin I gather from you) is one of the great secret turkey hunting destinations. Maine, New Hampshire and Vermont support excellent populations. I do my Grand Slamming via the Manchester, NH airport otherwise. Thanks! -S.

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from www.dropjhook.com wrote 10 weeks 3 days ago

Sorry to jump in but just wanted to say im not a turkey hunter but I do enjoy reading your post and readers comments. In my local area turkeys was like bigfoot 12 years ago like people would find a set of tracks but seeing a turkey not very often. Now I see flocks about evrey 2 weeks. we can hunt them but I choose to pass on them because Im praying that they keep growing in numbers so my sons can harvest big birds when it comes to there time.thanks for the wisdom i do learn alot from you guys maybee I can pass on your wisdom to my sons. good luck out there this year

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from charlie elk wrote 10 weeks 2 days ago

Guess our secrets aren't so secret any more yakking about them on this national blog. The catch 22 of hunting; we would all like to be the only ones out there. But we need more numbers to keep our way of life secure. So recruit and share the fun we must.

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from charlie elk wrote 10 weeks 2 days ago

djh nice of you to stop by. I've heard Montana has some very good spring turkey hunting in the south eastern section. Consider giving it a try.

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from www.dropjhook.com wrote 10 weeks 2 days ago

Charlie elk, I hunted that area befor my better half is from Lamedeer so I spent some time in the woods there opps I mean speant some time on the rolling plains. saw tones of pronghorns not much else. Ill let you in on a little secret of my own ;) there is the crow reservation in SE Montana well they let non members hunt on there land you just gota get permission from one of there leaders. And Im willing to bet charlie that if you went and talked some hunting to there youth well i bet they would give the go ahead to hunt any big game or bird on there almost 2 million acres. its way worth the trouble if you ever plan on making a trip to montana. Wow i just added a photo to my profile i look bloated hehehe.

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from charlie elk wrote 10 weeks 1 day ago

Talk hunting to youth and 2 million acres to practice what I preach - that got my attention djh. Montana is a great state to hunt it's been awhile since I hunted there, need to get back. Will be looking into this.
Thanks.
charlie

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from Ken Kishman wrote 10 weeks 1 day ago

My young lab passed away this summer that I had successfully used for fall turkey. We now have a 15w/o Boykin puppy that I'm training. Any tips for getting the dog to bark on the flush? I've been teasing him with a turkey wing on a string, but he's only barked twice (barely) at it. Is the barking something they developed with age and exposure to actual breaks of turkey flocks? Is there anything else I can do to encourage barking at turkeys at an early age? So far his nose is unbeatable at finding the pieces parts I hide and he is extremely birdy.

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from www.dropjhook.com wrote 10 weeks 1 day ago

I had a friend from there who got the go ahead to hunt for the week for me. was a good time i would do it again in a heart beat. I wish you luck charlie there really good people i think you have a good chance of a life time of free hunting there.:)

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from Steve Hickoff wrote 10 weeks 1 day ago

Hey Ken Kishman,

Sorry to hear about your Lab. We buried our old girl Jenny (English setter) in late August at 13+ years. Never gets easy though I have plenty of experience.

As for your questions, you're right on as my own turkey dogging goes. As you point out, barking is something they[sometimes] develop with age and exposure to the actual
turkey flock breaks. The Byrne dogs seem to have a talent for that feature (the Plott part?), but my Midge, a lemon and mostly white English setter, was excellent at doing it. It developed with age as you say, and I think it has something to do with the excitement of encountering a flock and being among them. All that scent! I've also learned to listen for wingbeats, and alarm putting on the scatter to fix the break site. Curious: Where do you do most of your turkey dogging? Thanks. -S.

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from Ken Kishman wrote 10 weeks 18 hours ago

Steve,

I do/did most my fall turkey dogging in central KY and southest OH. I have access to family land in PA & WV and may do that when the pup is ready. The military bases here in KY don't count against your state limit, so that is also in my plans. Too bad Indiana hasn't legalized it yet as they're just across the river from me.

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from Steve Hickoff wrote 10 weeks 9 hours ago

Hey Ken,

Great location, and a bunch of solid fall turkey (dogging) states there. We've come a long way since I was a kid running the ridges of northcentral PA. Though it's always been hardcore as autumn turkey hunting goes, the dogging aspect is just several years on the books as you know. Indy has been relatively conservative in the past with fall turkey hunting but we'll see. New Hampshire and Maine legalized turkey dogging on the books three seasons ago (it was legal in NH in '06 but the news spread slowly). Is there any movement in Indy to bring that about? We've had some success writing letters, sending articles and such to state wildlife managers. Keep us posted here at the SZ. thanks. -S.

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from Steve Hickoff wrote 10 weeks 9 hours ago

And I know what you mean Ken about the do/did aspects of fall turkey dogging. I've been road tripping to upstate NY (3.5 hrs. to the border; between 5-8 hrs. to where I hunt), and Vermont (two hours to the state line) for the past several decades to take advantage of their fall turkey dogging opportunities. I've got four states now (NY, VT, NH & Maine available to me). Thanks again. -S.

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