How many dogs get hit and/or killed by cars each year? We should also open a season on cars because i'm gonna venture to guess that they kill quite a few dogs each year. At least more than wolves do. I bet more deer are killed by cars than wolves too. Damn cars!

if it is such a part of nature when wolfs kill our hunting dogs, then its just as much a part of nature for me to blow them away. so you aint-hunters on this article defending wolves take it and shove it up your ass. I'm more than happy to shoot every wolf i see next year.

I dont understand what good are wolves they kill deer and elk and dogs. So what we only see 1 deer now. Come on wi dnr lets hunt em

The wolves are just going on thier instincts to protect their territory. If your dogs were raised in the woods all thier lives then they would behave the same way as the wolves do. Im not saying that there shouldn't be a hunting season on them cuz they can/ will go into towns and backyards and hurt somebody but you cant hate them for doing what their instincts tell them to do.

If you would like to continue this discussion please feel free to go to my blog -
http://hubpages.com/hub/The-Wolf-Controversy-in-Idaho

I would love to see you folks come comment on my blog! Thank you Boss

Wow, there are lots of crazy statements on here. I'm so disgusted with so many of you and your comments that I don't know where to start.

I live in Wisconsin, bear hunt in northern Wisconsin with dogs and I'm sick and tired of hearing about wolves killing dogs. Especially from friends who hunt in the same areas we do.

I believe it's actually going to take a child getting attacked for people to wake the hell up. Sorry to say it and to think it but come on. Wolves are not scared of people, why should they be? They will be soon though. Enough people have had it and are taking matters into their own hands.

The current Wisconsin wolf count according to the WI DNR is 630-680. What a joke! We all know how well the DNR can count, last year they discovered with the help of the Wisconsin Bear Hunters Association that there are twice as many bears as they thought! Amazing huh? So how many wolves are actually out there? How many will be enough? The population is already twice the goal!!! I like the idea of introducing the diamondbacks to NY. -Good argument!

And to the idiot who said the first settlers hunted alone and all that bullspit do some research! Hunting with dogs has been around since the beginning of time! Prehistoric man started it 20,000 years ago. The Egyptians, the Greek and the Romans all did it. Way to go there smart one!

Sorry, couldn't stay away. The wolf conservationists (earthjustice) are crying already about the numbers F&G have allocated for hunting in Idaho and Montana. Now, just because the number has been set - does that mean that that many wolves are going to be killed? Probably not. As a matter of fact, that is quite a complement to Idaho and Montana hunters that we can shoot so well, that we will actually harvest the maximum number of wolve allocated!!!!! I believe Fish & Game expect a percentage of the 220 tags to be filled. I am not sure what the projected percentage is but I know it is not 100%. I am only trying to show, that yes we are going to thin out some wolves, but I seriously douby it will be any where near the slaughter earthjustice thinks its going to be. Good luck all - Boss

Umm, somebody's been reading those erroneous text books again! Hate to tell ya, but wolves like to eat the healthiest when ever they can catch them. Read all the above comments there Pat, and you will see what I wrote about a steer of my Dad's that the wolves ate. The government did pay my dad for that steer. But it was pennies on the dollar for what we would have gotten for the steer at the auction. We certainly cannot afford to feed these animals our livelyhood! We are struggling as it is. I think Garth has the right of it. If you don't have direct experience with these animals, maybe you shouldn't say too much about it. Boss

"wolves cull the sick herd animals and promote healthy "

WHAT PART OF DECIMATING THE LOCAL POPULATIONS DID U NOT UNDERSTAND?

tHE PEOPLE WHO DONT LIVE IN THE DIRECT AREAS BETTER GET THE HEADS OUT OF THEIR BEHINDS, BECAUSE THIS KIND OF CRAP IS HAPPENING NOW IN ALMOST EVERY OTHER ASPECT OF OUR LIVES, AS IN BIG GOV

Controls will happen weather it is legal or not either a hunt or people will start putting out poison on these carcasses to kill indescriminatly.Just as it was done in the past history will repeat without controls in place.
Alabamaoutlaw

The last I heard was this. Nature will take care of it's self. Those that are "guides" only hunting for the trophy and THE MONEY. Way too bad. The ones that hunt with dogs, same case. Now the ranchers are at a loss of what to do, granted. But hear this, most are compensated by "US" you know the tax payers/ the government>>>. So what is their loss.

Our hunting tags support the so called game departments and the controling systems. But the "licensed guides" get to go where others cannot ,, oh yes we can, but with by paying through the nose.
Do I sound negative. ?Let the wolve run, the elk and all others will leverl out to a playing field that will be equal. I do have sympathy really for the families that have lost a loved one to a wild animal.
You have to realize that the wild was there first.
Tread softly and watch your back. I do hope the ones that tag an animal have to eat it. I mean that is what hunting is about?
Chuck

Hi all,
Did you hear what Idaho set for the limit on hunting wolves? 220. I doubt very much the limit will ever be reached in one season. Once these animals start getting shot at it won't take 'em long to go the other direction. I just hope they learn to go and stay away! Boss

I loved wolves and evreything about them since a young boy. The way they love there partener and there pups so deeply. But I am also a hunter & understanding person...Lets say someone went on your property & took 500$ worth of stuff evrey time they was hungry. 500$ you say why 500$ because correct me if im wrong thats how much a full grown cow or horse would cost I'm not up on market prices but that has to be close. so lets say the wolves takes 3 cows a month from a farmer thats 1500$ he losses a month 18,000 a year that would be hard in these down economic days. So I say hunt them untill they learn there things you can chew on and things you cant.

Argument about baiting makes no sense , in that, it may very well be that "you see less deer", but you used in the context that there were less deer period(ie, because they are easier to catch that way, more harvested, dont have to be a real hunter, blah blah). I have seen the trail cam pictures of deer on the move and few frames later the wolves. So if you think that baiting is decimating the population that these people are talking about, you are mistaken. Its an issue everywhere but its not the problem. The wolves have far surpassed it on the totem pole of problems. Baitng does the same exact thing to deer in NJ. They dont move from the bait. But they ALL OVER THE PLACE.
This very magazine, published photos showing wolves laying wastes to local elk population, by drowning them , in the same pond. Bones all over the place

As far as Ny is concerned the problem will not be the Feds because the Adirondacks is a not a national park. The problem, and there are sightings here; is the deer are moving further down from states like Maine, New Hampshire and Canada. Proliferating at a high rate. I never said it was going to be easy to stop some idiot. But I will try. Armed with facts, from your very states.

If you like , just take a look at the Black bear in NJ.
No hunting season and the number of peoples' kitchens that get ransacked goes up geometrically. Lose their fear , etc. I am bearing witness to it everyday. Why should wolves be any different. Only in that they kill more often, not always to eat, and more efficiently, way more efficiently them black bears. Black bears are oppurtunists, path of least resistance, garbage will do. Wolves are , to borrow a cliche, "remorseless killing machines"

gmbhunter...We've seen wolves where we hunt too and I confess that we do see fewer deer than we did see 15-20 years ago. Again though I think you hit the nail on the head. The huge corn piles make the deer nocturnal and pull the deer from other properties. (Those deer bed right next to those bait piles and don't move!) A perfect example is in town where I live. Some of my neighbors feed the deer year round. The deer bed 20 to 30 yards from the feeder and don't move, even when I'm walking the dog! Sickening. Garth...bait piles have alot to do with hunters not seeing deer in Northern Wisconsin. The deer are there but just don't move or they move at night.

Not for nothing but baiting and feeding deer is done in almost all the eastern states. And the Garden state parkway is still littered with deer carcases every year during the rut. One the most densely populated states per square mile in the union. Bow season runs from Sept to January 31. There so many deer they swam across the kil van kull and are repopulating Staten Island.
there are not a lot of bomber bucks, (because they get jacked by the land owners) but plenty of deer.
Im afraid , baiting has little to do with it in northern Wisconsin.

Living in Northern Wisconsin also gmbhunter, your deer may have been found by coyotes or even bear. As far as wolves drastically changing the deer hunting up here? I'd say that illegal baiting has had a much larger impact than the wolves. I'd like to see baiting and feeding deer banned! Then we'll see who the real hunters are.

Rod,
Love that post.That my friends is nature at its best. You have big dogs and like to hunt(wolves), well I have a big brain and like to hunt(thats how my brain got big by the way= meat)so I got a bigger dog and a gun. Simplicity.
Ozark,outdoor and others, what is your problem? Exactly as I said before. Confronted with common sense and facts, you hide behind some utopian idea of crap.Nobody said kill them all and what part of "they reintroduced hybrids" dont you understand. Flaming internet trolls.

we have the saqme problem with mountain Lions here in the west; these Bambie lovers go hog wild with all kinds of protections, then they over popualte and desimate their natural prey! and believe me they are not going to starve!your children would make a pretty good snack for maybe one wolf;Hunting is regulation " no one wants to kill them all"

to outdoors, ozark187, gramma and anyone else high fiving to their embarrassing example of what our society has become, go get a 99 cent whopper and let the people with some common sense take care of the big boy problems. I would love to see a pack of wolves or better yet one wolf or a coyote or a mountain lion or a bear come into your back yard in your cozy little suburb and take spot or fluffy out and turn him inside out then hear you tell your kids, well we live in their space. sure that might be true but where in the world has anything ever been built or grown that isn't in the wild or what was the wild once. maybe some opinions get exagerated both ways but unless you live 100 feet above the earth and grow your own food and dont drive a car or ride a bike or walk on concrete or asphalt or poop EVER, you have participated in the relocation, extiction or desecration of countless species yourself. So mangement becomes the only way to keep things somewhat in balance. That means management for life of all living things not just wolves or whatever the commonsensless need to try to eliminate there guilt for.TO outdoors specifically, thats a pretty ballsy comment posted.....in general. You dont eat meat? You dont live in a house built by managed forest lumber? You dont eat vegetables grown in country where wildlife management is crucial for production. You must know that hunting has been a way of life forever.....don't you. So maybe next time you feel like vomiting a bunch of stupid, you should go to your freezer pull out a frozen dinner and thank your lucky stars that there are people like us trying to keep those unbalanced issues balanced.

All I have to say of this matter is. I think a regulated wolf season is needed. As they have become overpopulated in the West. But they are needed for the environment to be at its healthiest.

As far as the dogs, it is just a predator prey thing. If we are to live in wolves and other large predators, we are obviously going to have to have casualties of human and pet lives, not often though. If we start hunting them, they will get their natural fear of humans back. Which in turn, will keep them away from towns.

And when hunting with dogs, try to keep close to your dogs., I seriously doubt a wolf would run right up to a dog right by you and kill it.

Also for the safety of children and pets at their homes. Fences will surely help.

I hope this comment will get some good ratings, as I feel I have made some valid points. But each is entitled to their own opinion so, give me what ever rating you'd like. But remember I'm only 16, so don't expect a perfect comment.

Wolves are a natural part of the wild environment and have a place in our wild lands even today. But like all game animals they absolutely MUST be managed intelligently. Being morally against the poisoning of wild animals, I see hunting as the only option. Wolves should have their populations held in check by legalized hunting.

PS

Yes I am a former resident of Alaska!

Another thing, I live in NYC, one of the liberal capitals of the world.
Even I can see that these things(wolves) are a problem for the people of Idaho, Minn, Michigan,Oregon, etc.
When a coyote runs thru Central Park, people lose their damn minds around here!
There are several hunting blogs that I frequent, and this thread has come up on every one, and 100% of the time, you can divide the arguers along political lines. Liberals for the wolves, conservatives for the people and their livelyhoods. Common sense be damned
Most have never spent more than a couple of hours in the woods.
Also, I think wolves are present in around 20 states in the lower 48 now.Guess what, they were not reintroduced to even half that many states. They have proliferated way way beyond expectations and the same govt that wants to run health care, cant even admit its mistake on the reintroduciton and get out of its own way and let the states come up with a policy that makes sense.
Bull Puckey is right!!!!!!!!!!!!

I truly feel sorry for the owners of the dogs that have been killed by wolves, but people need to realize that if you use dogs in the outdoors you need to realize that there are risks involved.

Great comments boss mare. I agree with you 100%.

One thing that i think will happen if the wolves start to be hunted is they may develop more of a fear to human. i may be wrong on that, but could it be any different than going to an elk ranch that has hardly ever been hunted and walking right up and shooting an elk. eventually if you continue this process they will start to catch on to the fact that the humans are coming to hunt them and will start to shy away from the rural areas. they may also realize that the livestock herds are protected by man and stay away from them more too. its just a guess. dont hold me to this comment.

These negative comments on hunting wolves or any other animal is indicative of the pussification of mankind. Hunting with dogs is also one of these trends. When we were settling this country, men hunted on foot, learned and used real hunting skills of tracking, and only killing what they need to get by...even a dog or two if they were all that was available...so you tree hugging squirrels and dog hunting pussies get a clue.

Human nature is amazing. I am amazed at people who are so out of touch with nature that they do not believe that people in nature should kill every wolf they see. I do so with coyotes. Coyotes need to be killed as a matter of course and so do wolves. This makes man the top preditor as he always has been historically and is healthier for deer and elk and every other creature that depends on human beings to act intelligently for their continued existance. If the wolves are allowed free reign, sooner or later, we will exterminate them. Sensible managment is best for everyone.

For those of you who write this devastation off as just part of the natural world or who think the "natural" world was in balance before man came to America, think again. Your argument is missing basic logic and contains nothing more than hot air and emotion. The wolves in themselves can't add balance because there is no predator controlling the wolves!!!!! And the balance that you speak of pre-man was long-term balance, not short-term, meaning that the wolves/bears/predators overkilled the deer, elk and other prey to the point that they themselves starved to death due to the lack of available prey. Then with very few predators, the elk/deer/prey rebounded followed by a rebound of the predator population, and so on and so on. This is not a short-run cycle but takes years/decades to complete/recover. There can be no short-term balance in nature without man's intervention. And since we intervened to reintroduce the species, the least we can do is intervene unemotionally to provide as much short-term balance as possible. Responsible hunting/trapping/fishing is the best known short-term balancing method known. The bad logic and emotionally wrenching arguments that you present prove to us that you are not connected to nature in any meaningful way. If you were, you would intuitively understand the unarguable need for hunting as well as the financial benefit that hunters and other sportsmen provide to wildlife and the environment each and every year.

Bottom line - Wolves need to be managed and bleeding heart activists need to stay out of it! Until you come here and experience the wild and especially the wolves, shut up. I'm pretty sure if your little house dog was attacked you would be singing a different tune.

Secondly to Bones Mcgee, you are reeeally somethin. I'm guessing you know how easy it is to hunt with hounds because you've tried it right? Ha, that's what I thought. What arrogant statements you make for being so ignorant.
You obviously have no idea how much work goes into training hunting dogs/hounds. Do you just think you just show up in the woods one day with your house dog and think it will run whatever it is you have in mind. No my friend, lots of work. I bet I spend twice as much time as you do in the woods, training bear/coyote/coon hounds as you do in a few years. Never mind that cause your an all mighty hunter that hunts alone. Big deal!

Don't judge until you know what you're talking about!

Oh and BTW, the first hunting dogs were wolves.

I will get alot of crap on this but.... Typical he-man lets kill that which we fear and is interfearing with our good time of hunting other animals. It has always been survival of the fittest in the wild and no matter what you would like, there is a preditor you cannot control. One who is smarter then most of you and that scares you. I am from a hunting family but we have always respected the need and instincts of other creatures. Stop using dogs to hunt with, track your prey one on one and your dogs will live. Is like cheating to use animals to hunt animals. Can't do it on your own? Seems even the dogs are smarter too. Gee.. not enough elk and bear to hunt. My heart bleeds for you. So bring on the nasty comments. I would expect no less from people who think killing is the answer to all their problems. And not enough elk and bear to hunt to me is not a problem. More time to spend with your families, fix the car, coach real sports and do something productive. Man against wild, wild will always win one way or another. Your treading in their area, beware of the consequences!

O.K. First off this posting thing is a first for me. My earlier post above might have been/probably was, kind of a knee jerk reaction. Fact is I don't live in an area with wolves but I am a lifelong hunter. With that said, I felt that the spread leaned in the direction of (the poor dogs-elk- and any other thing they can catch- vs the BIG BAD WOLF)hence my comment of get over it. Thats what they do. Having read some of the additional post I can see where lack of control over the population could be a problem. The downside is not the animals themselves it is the politics. The anti hunters vs the BIG BAD MEN WITH GUNS!!! It's a difficult call, maybe hunting is a solution. In any case having read some of your reactions I'll kindly amend my earlier post and say hopefully some kind of solution can be worked out. I stand corrected.

Lots of good posts but have you ever tryed to talk to anti-hunters about anything? Those people won't be bothered by factual arguments and common sense. They have sappy pictures and sad music. Their views and philosophies are based on pure emotion and they are blinded by it. I even had one on youtube try to tell me that deer hunting makes the population go up because they have more offspring to compensate those killed by hunters. How do you go about defeating or convincing people like that of the facts and what needs to be done? Wolves aren't the only predators that need to learn to fear humans. Bears need a good dose of leadicillin too.

I am all for having a short Hunting season on Wolves, just to try and keep population down. I am very sorry for the Dogs that were killed, I know what it is to have a perfect Dog and actually loving the animal. I am not sure how close Wolves are here in Colorado, I live in the forest so I see alot of animals come and go.
Does anyone have stats on Wolves in Colorado?

All you wolf lovers will be singing a different tune once a human life is lost. I live in the east so I don't worry about wolves when I have my son outdoors hunting or fishing. Good luck to you who go in the woods out west though.

The wolf population in Idaho was introduced in the wrong way. Wolf packs have an order that they are supposed to adhere to. Alpha female, and alpha male are supposed to be the leaders of the pack. When you introduce random animals into the mix, none of the dogs know who is the alpha. That is when you find 25 slain elk in the snow. The wolves kill just to kill. They are not hungry, they just kill because they think they need to. If they were introduced as a whole pack, the outcome may have been different. Even humans need rules to be successful in life. The wolves in Idaho and other states that were reintroduced need to be managed by each state's fish and game. Hunting seasons, and land owner permits need to be legal. People who are not from a wolf reintroduction states should stay out of our business. Get in your hybrid and go to your kids soccer game.

wbeasleyidaho, Garth and bat4bab are all on the same page with me. They just articulated it better! Boss

yvonnelamon you need to get your facts straight. Hunters only take a small amount of there food. The wolves are in people's back yards right next to a city were people live. When you can't let your dog out into a fenced in back yard and you have a wolf problem. By opening a hnting season on wolf the impact will not be enough to even impact the wolf population. In Montana there is more wolfs then the orgional study staited to propose a hunting season. People from back east and other parts needs to butt out and let the people that live in the area manage there land. Over half of the people that are fighting this I bet will never come to a state to see them or will try to go out and find one. Everything has a place but things need to be managed including the wolf. If we stuck wolfs or Bears in central park to feed on there dogs. People woud be outraged. At one time the hole United States was wild. However with cities that has changed however maybe the wolf needs to still live there also because at one time the wolf lived there. It is the same when the wolves are in our back yard feeding on our dogs and possibly our children. People need to know the hole story not just the part they want to hear.

Doomed to repeat it.
History that is.
Bleeding hearts and Sierra club need not apply.
Facts are in aggreement with all living those areas where wolf was "re introduced'
The larger Artic timber wolf species was reintroduced as opposed to the gray/red native.

Also, I like being the apex predator in the woods, because I have a very large brain and also compassion,
wolves have none.
Question, why do think wolves are killing members of their own species?
Competition, they dont like it.
Question, why were wolves run out of Ireland, Europe and Russia and the lower 48?
Answer , I dont think it was all folk tales?
Farming/livestock lifestyles dont mix with their life styles , when the whitetail and elk population run low, where do you thing they are going next?
Also, caribou was the primary target in the artic, highly migratory, elk and deer are not, so you are stuck with em until you bury them.
Please go save the whales and stay out the peoples lives in the upper midwest trying to feed the rest of us.

From the studies and reports I have done on wolves, they are a top tier predator, they are increadiby intelligent and highly adaptive, and they are highy blodthirsty and effective killers. The lower 48 states did not almost entirely eliminate the wolves by hunting and trapping. Only when poisoned bait was used was the population significantly impacted. In areas where wolves are actively hunted they are taught respect and they learn to avoid man they do not approach anything tha smells of man. The wolves reintroduced into Idaho are much larger than the wolves that were already living here. They have reproduced unfettered and have no fear of man or beast. They kill with utter impunity and wantonly destroy what were once large game populations. Are we upset that people from the other side of the continent forced these killers into our state yes, but all we can do and what we see as what we must do at this point is to teach the animals the respect they must have to be allowed to remain in our state. We who know and live here would have chosen to allow nature to remain on her course and to repopulate Idaho' wolves from our own wilderness stock and to keep under controll as we did so. Studies have shown that to have a long term effect on the coyote population 70% of the animals must be removed from and area with wolves it is 75% hunting and trapping alone can never do this. Wolves were a part of nature but man has taken over the management of the wildlife and competent mangement cannot be without being able to manage this top teir predator.

Wake up Bones and the rest of you out there that think this is just "natural". If you don't live with or near the wolves, then you don't have a clue how out of touch this recovery program is with reality. Sure, the wolves are here to stay...but their numbers have FAR exceeded the recovery quotas and they NEED to be controlled.

These oversized mongrels are decimating our herds...and no, it's not just about saving an elk so I can hunt it. It's about not having to watch a cowardly wolf pack pull the intenstines out of a birthing cow elk or harass them incessantly during the winter season until they drop from exhaustion. You don't see this on TV, nor do you want to because it upsets the image of the glorified wolf.

I for one recognize that I am on top of the food chain and I will not accept that I need to get along with or tolerate the current wolf levels. We live here and now, not 200 years ago...and I will not stay out of their "home". I'm looking forward to our first Idaho wolf season.

What is wrong with you people? Wolves are wild animals and dogs are domesticated! Of course they don't stand a chance!!! You, who let your dogs go out into the wild are the killers!! Keep your dogs safe, keep them in where you know there are wild animals! Wolves have a right to be out in the wild, but if you take their food by hunting it, then they will come closer to home to find something to eat. LEAVE THEM ALONE and they won't bother you! Stay out of their home!!!!!!!!!

Living in the Bitterroot Valley of MT, I've seen the effect of the wolf population explosion. Our elk population has been decimated. We have far too many wolves now. The feds set a target goal for the number of mating pairs and their current numbers are more than double that. We need to be able to hunt the wolves now to control their numbers before our elk valley's elk population is lost altogether. Enough is enough.

I think the point is that we should be able to hunt them.

Though I feel for the owners of the killed dogs, I doubt the feds have empathy or sympathy.
I don't know if it'll work, but they might try adding a couple (or more) traditional wolf hunting hounds such as Irish & Russian wolf hounds or perhaps a Mastiff to your kennel to send along on hunts.
Of course I guess having wolf hunting hound on the hunt could be illegal.

OK, but not sure there's really some big huge point to make here. You don't like the natural world, stay home in the suburbs. Stay in your truck. Gravity kills. Trying to breathe underwater kills.