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How many dogs get hit and/or killed by cars each year? We should also open a season on cars because i'm gonna venture to guess that they kill quite a few dogs each year. At least more than wolves do. I bet more deer are killed by cars than wolves too. Damn cars!
Wow. Humanity is so stupid. Theres millions of us and thousands of dogs. Get the hell over it. We took all the land from the wolves. Hunters and their dogs deserve it. Your in their backyard, get the hell out! They are not killing machines. Your more likely to get killed by a toaster than a wolf btws
if it is such a part of nature when wolfs kill our hunting dogs, then its just as much a part of nature for me to blow them away. so you aint-hunters on this article defending wolves take it and shove it up your ass. I'm more than happy to shoot every wolf i see next year.
To all you "Cute Cuddly" wolf Lovers
These animals are killing machines. They are going to wipe out the deer and elk population. Then what??? HUMANS!!! I'd like to see you scrawny little vegitarians and vegans fight a pack of wolves off. AINT HAPPENING! For all I care they can all just DIE!!! Take that into consideration you MORONS!
I dont understand what good are wolves they kill deer and elk and dogs. So what we only see 1 deer now. Come on wi dnr lets hunt em
I personally think that if their is so many animals being killed by wolves why dont the goverment let us open a season on um.
The wolves are just going on thier instincts to protect their territory. If your dogs were raised in the woods all thier lives then they would behave the same way as the wolves do. Im not saying that there shouldn't be a hunting season on them cuz they can/ will go into towns and backyards and hurt somebody but you cant hate them for doing what their instincts tell them to do.
i've heard of dogs around here being attacked by coyotes along with cats and being shreaded to pieces. i'm glad wolves are not around here for that reason. the coyote population is bad enough. i could not imagin talkin my beagle out hunting and having him attacked and killed by coyotes or wolves. that would be the loss of a family member. most people look at their dogs as one of the family sometimes even like a kid.my heart goes out to all the hunters and non hunters who's dogs and other pets have been killed by wolves. someday i'd love to go on a wolf hunt. those wolves definitaly need to be put in to an open season and get the population under controll.
If you would like to continue this discussion please feel free to go to my blog -
I would love to see you folks come comment on my blog! Thank you Boss
Got me thinking! We are the only species who needs a grill to enjoy our meals. Nature would be balanced if it were not for man.
The next time a barracuda removes a catch (bone fish) from my line, I will demand that he/she cleans it properly before ingestion.
Good to see the natural interaction.
Wow, there are lots of crazy statements on here. I'm so disgusted with so many of you and your comments that I don't know where to start.
I live in Wisconsin, bear hunt in northern Wisconsin with dogs and I'm sick and tired of hearing about wolves killing dogs. Especially from friends who hunt in the same areas we do.
I believe it's actually going to take a child getting attacked for people to wake the hell up. Sorry to say it and to think it but come on. Wolves are not scared of people, why should they be? They will be soon though. Enough people have had it and are taking matters into their own hands.
The current Wisconsin wolf count according to the WI DNR is 630-680. What a joke! We all know how well the DNR can count, last year they discovered with the help of the Wisconsin Bear Hunters Association that there are twice as many bears as they thought! Amazing huh? So how many wolves are actually out there? How many will be enough? The population is already twice the goal!!! I like the idea of introducing the diamondbacks to NY. -Good argument!
And to the idiot who said the first settlers hunted alone and all that bullspit do some research! Hunting with dogs has been around since the beginning of time! Prehistoric man started it 20,000 years ago. The Egyptians, the Greek and the Romans all did it. Way to go there smart one!
I dont wish to join the fray BUT I live here and the wolf advocates need to understand that when the white man came here 200 years ago there were no roads no cities no concrete and few people the landscape has changed and the native animals don't have the room they once had. You folks that live in cities (usually the ones that want to see the poor wolf run free and wild, unchecked) think about this. The eastern diamond back rattlesnake was native and natural in Central Park New York I think it only proper that we reintroduce that animal back to it's natural habitat, Dont You?
If you don't want that in your back yard understand that I don't want your wolf in mine.
Sorry, couldn't stay away. The wolf conservationists (earthjustice) are crying already about the numbers F&G have allocated for hunting in Idaho and Montana. Now, just because the number has been set - does that mean that that many wolves are going to be killed? Probably not. As a matter of fact, that is quite a complement to Idaho and Montana hunters that we can shoot so well, that we will actually harvest the maximum number of wolve allocated!!!!! I believe Fish & Game expect a percentage of the 220 tags to be filled. I am not sure what the projected percentage is but I know it is not 100%. I am only trying to show, that yes we are going to thin out some wolves, but I seriously douby it will be any where near the slaughter earthjustice thinks its going to be. Good luck all - Boss
Wolfs need to be managed just like any other animal...Ranchers should have the right to protect their livestock/livelyhood from predatory animals...such as Mt. Lions, Bears, Wolfs, Coyotes, Bobcats, Lynx, dogs, wild dogs, etc....Are wolfs evil??? NO, they are animals, animals cannot exhibit "hate" and "Evil" like we humans see it. Senseless killing of a species just because they exist is not the way to handle the problem, there are better ways. Hopefully we hunters and the folks making the laws about how to keep the numbers in check can come to a happy medium.
Umm, somebody's been reading those erroneous text books again! Hate to tell ya, but wolves like to eat the healthiest when ever they can catch them. Read all the above comments there Pat, and you will see what I wrote about a steer of my Dad's that the wolves ate. The government did pay my dad for that steer. But it was pennies on the dollar for what we would have gotten for the steer at the auction. We certainly cannot afford to feed these animals our livelyhood! We are struggling as it is. I think Garth has the right of it. If you don't have direct experience with these animals, maybe you shouldn't say too much about it. Boss
I don't want to wipe the wolves out. However I do think we need to use hunting as a management tool to keep their numbers at normal levels.
Animal rights people have to get over the fact that these animals are going to be controlled one way or another. Either by a responsible hunting program managed by state and federal officials or by a program where state and federal officials hire professional hunters to control them. Either way they will be controlled.
I say lets generate some revenue and let hunters do the job.
"wolves cull the sick herd animals and promote healthy "
WHAT PART OF DECIMATING THE LOCAL POPULATIONS DID U NOT UNDERSTAND?
tHE PEOPLE WHO DONT LIVE IN THE DIRECT AREAS BETTER GET THE HEADS OUT OF THEIR BEHINDS, BECAUSE THIS KIND OF CRAP IS HAPPENING NOW IN ALMOST EVERY OTHER ASPECT OF OUR LIVES, AS IN BIG GOV
Did you notice that the headline was about deer and elk kill by wolves and every photo was of dogs killed and eaten. The fact is that wolves cull the sick herd animals and promote healthy sustainable populations. If gun dogs and working dogs are being killed by wolves the owner should be compensated. If the kill photos are too graphic, those with such tender sensibilities should stay home and watch the world on TV. Wolves kill other canines in their range that is thier nature, the people of Idaho will deal with this new reality.
Controls will happen weather it is legal or not either a hunt or people will start putting out poison on these carcasses to kill indescriminatly.Just as it was done in the past history will repeat without controls in place.
Hear this the goverment pays the ranchers tax money like you said but how much you imagine they fork out for cows killed by wolves?Enough to build a school?or Enough to build a hospital? I think man is part of nature too dont you agree so this is nature doing what it does best.
The last I heard was this. Nature will take care of it's self. Those that are "guides" only hunting for the trophy and THE MONEY. Way too bad. The ones that hunt with dogs, same case. Now the ranchers are at a loss of what to do, granted. But hear this, most are compensated by "US" you know the tax payers/ the government>>>. So what is their loss.
Our hunting tags support the so called game departments and the controling systems. But the "licensed guides" get to go where others cannot ,, oh yes we can, but with by paying through the nose.
Do I sound negative. ?Let the wolve run, the elk and all others will leverl out to a playing field that will be equal. I do have sympathy really for the families that have lost a loved one to a wild animal.
You have to realize that the wild was there first.
Tread softly and watch your back. I do hope the ones that tag an animal have to eat it. I mean that is what hunting is about?
Hope you get a tag boss good hunting
Did you hear what Idaho set for the limit on hunting wolves? 220. I doubt very much the limit will ever be reached in one season. Once these animals start getting shot at it won't take 'em long to go the other direction. I just hope they learn to go and stay away! Boss
maybe you didnt get the memo, when they were handing them out.
We are the only species that can possess something, its call consciousness. Now you truly cant possess nature, that much i understand, but are you alive, are you conscious when you eat, work, in another words can you think about two things at once or is it all instinct we are acting on.
I would suspect the ranchers with cattle who were killed would say "those cattle are mine"
I loved wolves and evreything about them since a young boy. The way they love there partener and there pups so deeply. But I am also a hunter & understanding person...Lets say someone went on your property & took 500$ worth of stuff evrey time they was hungry. 500$ you say why 500$ because correct me if im wrong thats how much a full grown cow or horse would cost I'm not up on market prices but that has to be close. so lets say the wolves takes 3 cows a month from a farmer thats 1500$ he losses a month 18,000 a year that would be hard in these down economic days. So I say hunt them untill they learn there things you can chew on and things you cant.
As usual, human(s) intervene with nature and make a mess of it. Why is it humans are always " this is mine " and what interferes with it must be stopped.
Humans chose to be or move to live in the wilderness, because they are attracted to it. But, what do they do? They cut down the trees they so adore, because they block their view or are in the way so they can build. The 'wild' animals that amazed them are now a nuisance and must be eradicated. Can't live in harmony with nature? Don't like the way nature operates? Than don't go into the woods. Nature can be ugly as well as beautiful.
Humans might be the smartest animal (so, it is said; but smart in what way?), but they are the weakest of the animals. Humans are the only animals that require accessories to live in the 'wild'.
Argument about baiting makes no sense , in that, it may very well be that "you see less deer", but you used in the context that there were less deer period(ie, because they are easier to catch that way, more harvested, dont have to be a real hunter, blah blah). I have seen the trail cam pictures of deer on the move and few frames later the wolves. So if you think that baiting is decimating the population that these people are talking about, you are mistaken. Its an issue everywhere but its not the problem. The wolves have far surpassed it on the totem pole of problems. Baitng does the same exact thing to deer in NJ. They dont move from the bait. But they ALL OVER THE PLACE.
This very magazine, published photos showing wolves laying wastes to local elk population, by drowning them , in the same pond. Bones all over the place
As far as Ny is concerned the problem will not be the Feds because the Adirondacks is a not a national park. The problem, and there are sightings here; is the deer are moving further down from states like Maine, New Hampshire and Canada. Proliferating at a high rate. I never said it was going to be easy to stop some idiot. But I will try. Armed with facts, from your very states.
If you like , just take a look at the Black bear in NJ.
No hunting season and the number of peoples' kitchens that get ransacked goes up geometrically. Lose their fear , etc. I am bearing witness to it everyday. Why should wolves be any different. Only in that they kill more often, not always to eat, and more efficiently, way more efficiently them black bears. Black bears are oppurtunists, path of least resistance, garbage will do. Wolves are , to borrow a cliche, "remorseless killing machines"
Garth---baiting is not really the issue here---wolves are-----and it is real easy to think you can stop "some idiot" from reintroducing them to the Adirondacks-----that idiot is your and my federal government and the Friends of wildlife clubs,,,etc.....easy to say you can stop but BEWARE---the lobby is strong----wolves were delisted until some idiot in the northeast got an injunction(temporarily) putting them back on endangered list---"said the population had not reached goals all the way to Maine. All they see are the cute pictures of wolf puppies, not the reality of the woods.
gmbhunter...We've seen wolves where we hunt too and I confess that we do see fewer deer than we did see 15-20 years ago. Again though I think you hit the nail on the head. The huge corn piles make the deer nocturnal and pull the deer from other properties. (Those deer bed right next to those bait piles and don't move!) A perfect example is in town where I live. Some of my neighbors feed the deer year round. The deer bed 20 to 30 yards from the feeder and don't move, even when I'm walking the dog! Sickening. Garth...bait piles have alot to do with hunters not seeing deer in Northern Wisconsin. The deer are there but just don't move or they move at night.
And I will not back out of the conversation because New York does not a population of wolves yet...exactly for that reason. When some idiot says lets reintroduce them to the adirondacks, we can be all over him like white on rice.
Not for nothing but baiting and feeding deer is done in almost all the eastern states. And the Garden state parkway is still littered with deer carcases every year during the rut. One the most densely populated states per square mile in the union. Bow season runs from Sept to January 31. There so many deer they swam across the kil van kull and are repopulating Staten Island.
there are not a lot of bomber bucks, (because they get jacked by the land owners) but plenty of deer.
Im afraid , baiting has little to do with it in northern Wisconsin.
Huntforit---yes there are bear,,,and a few coyotes(the wolves have pretty much chased them out)----Saw wolves on road kill once last year and crossing dirt roads twice this spring---but the tracks were way too large and the entire carcass stripped in one night. Have had tracks all around the cabin in the winter snow. as far as bating---both legal and illegal----would love to see a complete ban by the state---deer would travel a whole lot more during dawn/dusk/daylight.---Baiting just encourages them going nocturnal. I still would like the do-gooders from states with no wolf population to just back out.
Living in Northern Wisconsin also gmbhunter, your deer may have been found by coyotes or even bear. As far as wolves drastically changing the deer hunting up here? I'd say that illegal baiting has had a much larger impact than the wolves. I'd like to see baiting and feeding deer banned! Then we'll see who the real hunters are.
I hunt northern Wisconsin---the wolves have drastically changed the deer hunting over the past 5 years. My son arrowed a nice 6 point deer right at dark---when we found it in the morning only the feet and head were left. We used to see deer daily--now we are lucky to see more than one or two a day. The wolf quotas originally set are far surpassed. There are a whole group of well meaning people trying to "protect" the wolves----lets release about 6 breeding pairs in all the eastern states and it won't take long for the attitudes to change. If you do not live in an area with an active wolf pack you do not really have an idea of what a viscious,skilled hunter they are.
Love that post.That my friends is nature at its best. You have big dogs and like to hunt(wolves), well I have a big brain and like to hunt(thats how my brain got big by the way= meat)so I got a bigger dog and a gun. Simplicity.
Ozark,outdoor and others, what is your problem? Exactly as I said before. Confronted with common sense and facts, you hide behind some utopian idea of crap.Nobody said kill them all and what part of "they reintroduced hybrids" dont you understand. Flaming internet trolls.
December 2007, northern Quebec.Out inspecting my trap line and so far,8 out of 10 snowshoe hares have been eaten.Wolf tracks all around.My dog,a 175lb Irish Wolfhound is uneasy.Suddenly two grey wolves go for my dog appearing from no where.The first wolf slashes my dog's shoulder and he grabs the wolf by the back of the neck,shakes it like a rag doll, it falls stone dead.The other wolf takes off and my dog quickly catches up, grabs it by the back of the neck and kills it within 30 secs.Love my wolfhound, glad I didn't have a shitzou with me that day.Had a great snowshoe stew that night and shared it with my good buddy.
we have the saqme problem with mountain Lions here in the west; these Bambie lovers go hog wild with all kinds of protections, then they over popualte and desimate their natural prey! and believe me they are not going to starve!your children would make a pretty good snack for maybe one wolf;Hunting is regulation " no one wants to kill them all"
Gives standing applause!!!!A man
to outdoors, ozark187, gramma and anyone else high fiving to their embarrassing example of what our society has become, go get a 99 cent whopper and let the people with some common sense take care of the big boy problems. I would love to see a pack of wolves or better yet one wolf or a coyote or a mountain lion or a bear come into your back yard in your cozy little suburb and take spot or fluffy out and turn him inside out then hear you tell your kids, well we live in their space. sure that might be true but where in the world has anything ever been built or grown that isn't in the wild or what was the wild once. maybe some opinions get exagerated both ways but unless you live 100 feet above the earth and grow your own food and dont drive a car or ride a bike or walk on concrete or asphalt or poop EVER, you have participated in the relocation, extiction or desecration of countless species yourself. So mangement becomes the only way to keep things somewhat in balance. That means management for life of all living things not just wolves or whatever the commonsensless need to try to eliminate there guilt for.TO outdoors specifically, thats a pretty ballsy comment posted.....in general. You dont eat meat? You dont live in a house built by managed forest lumber? You dont eat vegetables grown in country where wildlife management is crucial for production. You must know that hunting has been a way of life forever.....don't you. So maybe next time you feel like vomiting a bunch of stupid, you should go to your freezer pull out a frozen dinner and thank your lucky stars that there are people like us trying to keep those unbalanced issues balanced.
I've also noticed that people who say kill all wolves on here get more good ratings than people who are actually environmentally intelligent. That is messed up.
All I have to say of this matter is. I think a regulated wolf season is needed. As they have become overpopulated in the West. But they are needed for the environment to be at its healthiest.
As far as the dogs, it is just a predator prey thing. If we are to live in wolves and other large predators, we are obviously going to have to have casualties of human and pet lives, not often though. If we start hunting them, they will get their natural fear of humans back. Which in turn, will keep them away from towns.
And when hunting with dogs, try to keep close to your dogs., I seriously doubt a wolf would run right up to a dog right by you and kill it.
Also for the safety of children and pets at their homes. Fences will surely help.
I hope this comment will get some good ratings, as I feel I have made some valid points. But each is entitled to their own opinion so, give me what ever rating you'd like. But remember I'm only 16, so don't expect a perfect comment.
Wolves are a natural part of the wild environment and have a place in our wild lands even today. But like all game animals they absolutely MUST be managed intelligently. Being morally against the poisoning of wild animals, I see hunting as the only option. Wolves should have their populations held in check by legalized hunting.
I remember numerous of news articles of mothers hanging clothes and all of a sudden there child is screaming they towards the child to see a wolf carrying their kid away and some of these attacks were in city limits, so go figure!
Just think some bureaucrat is setting making judgments on what to do and they have no real world experience. For them roughing it is a night at the Hilton Hotel in Orlando Florida or Los Vegas Nevada while those like us is just a bed roll, a tarp and the stars above.
I remember one night, the top of my dome tent look like if it was on fire. As I exited the tent and looked up it was the Northern Lights in all its entire splendor!
Yes I am a former resident of Alaska!
Remember this one!
Woman's life in danger after chimp attack
A woman has been hospitalized with life-threatening injuries after a pet chimpanzee attacked her at a friend's home in Stamford, Connecticut, police said.
All too often individuals of dangerous and exotic pets fall victim to what they should not have. From poisonous snakes to wildlife brought home because they look cute and cuddly or some fascination about that species.
I’ve lost count on how many people have went to a Wolf breeder and brought home a Wolf or even ½ Wolf truly believing the wild has been somehow magically bred out of it. But later they tragically find they must put down the animal for obvious reason.
Too often, there are those who believe you can manipulate Mother Nature only to find they created something like Armageddon. When Man steps in with all the warm fuzzys just t try to do something right like In 1906, President Theodore Roosevelt established the Grand Canyon National Game Preserve on the Kaibab Plateau. His intention was to protect the mule deer from overhunting by humans and predation by natural enemies. The result is followed by devastation and decades of undoing the wrong!
Introduction of Wolves sounds majestic and warms the soul to once again to right a wrong. But sadly to say Wolves kill not just for food, the kill just because they can just like a sadistic killer going into the woods blasting anything that moves!
Wolves look cuddly and everyone wants one in their living room with their toddler. It’s like those who have Indian statues and other related items trying to bring in the spirit of something they truly don’t understand! Yes the Indians are a proud and noble race, but they do know it’s futile to harness to spirit of the Wolf. It’s even taboo to kill a coyote and to skin it. Skinning a coyote releases evil spirits so I wonder what would be said about the Wolf.
For the Wolf to exist by introducing them into an environment, it’s sad to say they must be kept in check by hunting etc or to be removed period!
Sad to say, I would not allow wolves in my area. I know firsthand the carnage they can cause!
Another thing, I live in NYC, one of the liberal capitals of the world.
Even I can see that these things(wolves) are a problem for the people of Idaho, Minn, Michigan,Oregon, etc.
When a coyote runs thru Central Park, people lose their damn minds around here!
There are several hunting blogs that I frequent, and this thread has come up on every one, and 100% of the time, you can divide the arguers along political lines. Liberals for the wolves, conservatives for the people and their livelyhoods. Common sense be damned
Most have never spent more than a couple of hours in the woods.
Also, I think wolves are present in around 20 states in the lower 48 now.Guess what, they were not reintroduced to even half that many states. They have proliferated way way beyond expectations and the same govt that wants to run health care, cant even admit its mistake on the reintroduciton and get out of its own way and let the states come up with a policy that makes sense.
Bull Puckey is right!!!!!!!!!!!!
I truly feel sorry for the owners of the dogs that have been killed by wolves, but people need to realize that if you use dogs in the outdoors you need to realize that there are risks involved.
You are correct. Folks don't know it but once we start hunting wolves, they will quickly learn to respect humans and will soon learn the "boundaries". The wolves that were native to Idaho before the "re-introduction", did know the "boundaries". That is why no one saw them much, (we did:))and they didn't bother our livestock. the balance was just right. With these Canadaian wolves the balance has been mightily upset. You are right on the money Seth.
Great comments boss mare. I agree with you 100%.
One thing that i think will happen if the wolves start to be hunted is they may develop more of a fear to human. i may be wrong on that, but could it be any different than going to an elk ranch that has hardly ever been hunted and walking right up and shooting an elk. eventually if you continue this process they will start to catch on to the fact that the humans are coming to hunt them and will start to shy away from the rural areas. they may also realize that the livestock herds are protected by man and stay away from them more too. its just a guess. dont hold me to this comment.
wow, been going through and reading the comments since yesterday and there are several really good ones. I especially like Sweetspiller's comment. and many others.
To tiffsgrandma, I think you are the one out of touch. I live in Idaho. We have had wolves all around us for about four years now and I am not even NEAR any of the wilderness areas. They have spread all the way to Boise and over to Oregon. But you didn't know that hum?
I am a woman. Have hunted for food all my life. My husband hunts. My kids hunt. We hunt together as a family and have family time together. Venison and Elk is our main source of winter protein for us. It is really scary were several years ago we had hundreds of deer on our ranch, this year I have only seen one. It is horrifying. My neighbors lost some cattle to wolves. Not calves, full grown cows. My dad lost an 800 pound steer to wolves. By the way, he was the healthiest animal in the herd. Another fallicy, wolve only kill the weakest. Bull pucky!
I live with nature every day. I do know what I'm talking about. I wished they had never brought those animals here from Canada, I know it won't be long and some child is going to get got. It won't be long.
These negative comments on hunting wolves or any other animal is indicative of the pussification of mankind. Hunting with dogs is also one of these trends. When we were settling this country, men hunted on foot, learned and used real hunting skills of tracking, and only killing what they need to get by...even a dog or two if they were all that was available...so you tree hugging squirrels and dog hunting pussies get a clue.
I agree with David Brooks above. I live in the rural Southeast and shoot feral dogs, coyotes, and bobcats on sight as they are nuisance predators and will devastate the game species in an area (deer, quail, turkeys, etc). Likewise I trap and kill raccoons to protect my turkey population. From what I have learned here about this new “hybrid wolf” which is not even native to the area, I personally believe they should be systematically killed and the wolf population managed, if not entirely eradicated. If something isn’t done soon, I’m sure the locals will simply start shooting them on sight or poisoning and using the 3 “S” approach….Shoot, Shovel, and Shut-up. I would gladly kill the wolves for the citizens of Idaho if given the chance. I think one would make a fine rug, or mount for my wall. Liberal tree hugging idiots will always try to paint those who would kill animals (even dangerous predators) in a bad light, but that just shows their true ignorance about hunting and game management.
Human nature is amazing. I am amazed at people who are so out of touch with nature that they do not believe that people in nature should kill every wolf they see. I do so with coyotes. Coyotes need to be killed as a matter of course and so do wolves. This makes man the top preditor as he always has been historically and is healthier for deer and elk and every other creature that depends on human beings to act intelligently for their continued existance. If the wolves are allowed free reign, sooner or later, we will exterminate them. Sensible managment is best for everyone.
Hey Tiffsgrandma, were the deer, elk, sheep, cattle also out hunting when the wolves got them too? The last time I saw wolves out hunting, they were in a pack. Let me explain it a different way just in case you didn't get my logic the first time. Even the wolves use hunting dogs! If the wolves were so much more honorable than us terrible hunters, wouldn't they hunt alone instead of in packs?
For those of you who write this devastation off as just part of the natural world or who think the "natural" world was in balance before man came to America, think again. Your argument is missing basic logic and contains nothing more than hot air and emotion. The wolves in themselves can't add balance because there is no predator controlling the wolves!!!!! And the balance that you speak of pre-man was long-term balance, not short-term, meaning that the wolves/bears/predators overkilled the deer, elk and other prey to the point that they themselves starved to death due to the lack of available prey. Then with very few predators, the elk/deer/prey rebounded followed by a rebound of the predator population, and so on and so on. This is not a short-run cycle but takes years/decades to complete/recover. There can be no short-term balance in nature without man's intervention. And since we intervened to reintroduce the species, the least we can do is intervene unemotionally to provide as much short-term balance as possible. Responsible hunting/trapping/fishing is the best known short-term balancing method known. The bad logic and emotionally wrenching arguments that you present prove to us that you are not connected to nature in any meaningful way. If you were, you would intuitively understand the unarguable need for hunting as well as the financial benefit that hunters and other sportsmen provide to wildlife and the environment each and every year.
I LIVE AROUND THOSE THINGS YEAR ROUND HERE IN IDAHO ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. REGARDLESS OF A LEGAL HUNTING SEASON OR NOT, THE LOCALS ARE HAVING ONE. WE ARE TIRED OF NOT SEEING ANYMORE DEER, ELK, OR SOW BEARS BECAUSE THEY TREE THEIR CUBS TO SAVE THEM FROM THE WOLVES THEN THEY KILL THE MOTHER BECAUSE THE ARE AN OVER DOMINANT PREDATOR. ITS TIME TO DO SOMETHING.
Bottom line - Wolves need to be managed and bleeding heart activists need to stay out of it! Until you come here and experience the wild and especially the wolves, shut up. I'm pretty sure if your little house dog was attacked you would be singing a different tune.
Secondly to Bones Mcgee, you are reeeally somethin. I'm guessing you know how easy it is to hunt with hounds because you've tried it right? Ha, that's what I thought. What arrogant statements you make for being so ignorant.
You obviously have no idea how much work goes into training hunting dogs/hounds. Do you just think you just show up in the woods one day with your house dog and think it will run whatever it is you have in mind. No my friend, lots of work. I bet I spend twice as much time as you do in the woods, training bear/coyote/coon hounds as you do in a few years. Never mind that cause your an all mighty hunter that hunts alone. Big deal!
Don't judge until you know what you're talking about!
I love the arguement that what was "balanced" 200 years ago can somehow be applied to today. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the world is just a tad bit different today. I believe because man does encroach on the natural world, he has a responsibility to manage that world. When given a chance, we're pretty good at doing just that. Not perfect, but pretty good. Those that hold managed harvesting of the wolf up in litigation, don't understand the world we live in today, natural or manmade, or the importance of managing the balance between the two. Not only will the wolf suffer by indiscriminate killing when its numbers get too high, but deer, elk, antelope, etc., will also suffer along the way through unchecked predation. When a predator at or near the top of the food chain goes unchecked, bad things happen. For example, behaving in an unchecked manner, man, at the top of the food chain, decimated bison herds back in the 1800s. Wolves will do the same to a variety of game animals if left unchecked. That's when the fun starts. With few game animals to go after, wolves will go after what is available, including men, women, children, livestock, domestic pets, etc. Let's make the wolf, deer, elk, bear, birds, and humankind, a part of the balance in today's world. Favoring one over another, will only lead to disaster.
Oh and BTW, the first hunting dogs were wolves.
let me be the first to give you what you deserve "crap"
How exactly is it "their area" if they were reintroduced?
Do you realize the bond between human and hunting dog predates recorded history? A truly symbiotic relationship. Id like to see how fast you would object to me hunting with a pack Irish wolfhounds and a machine gun.
Or are you one of those who have trouble with relationships in particular , with humans or men?
Not a problem for you? That so nice. Im glad everything is right in your world. Maybe , you could negotiate with the wolves and they would understand, while families lose their livelyhoods
I will get alot of crap on this but.... Typical he-man lets kill that which we fear and is interfearing with our good time of hunting other animals. It has always been survival of the fittest in the wild and no matter what you would like, there is a preditor you cannot control. One who is smarter then most of you and that scares you. I am from a hunting family but we have always respected the need and instincts of other creatures. Stop using dogs to hunt with, track your prey one on one and your dogs will live. Is like cheating to use animals to hunt animals. Can't do it on your own? Seems even the dogs are smarter too. Gee.. not enough elk and bear to hunt. My heart bleeds for you. So bring on the nasty comments. I would expect no less from people who think killing is the answer to all their problems. And not enough elk and bear to hunt to me is not a problem. More time to spend with your families, fix the car, coach real sports and do something productive. Man against wild, wild will always win one way or another. Your treading in their area, beware of the consequences!
Thewolves are a scourge! I have had them follow me and the only way I discovered it was to come down my own backtrail. I didn't even hear or see the wolf at all. They kill elk and deer up here and just eat the womb and the calf inside, leaving the carcas. If hunters were to do that there would be big static. Also, when the settlers came out west they had to poison the wolves to kill them all, that is how hard they are to hunt. Dont think some state sanctioned season will make a dent. Meanwhile they have completely ruined elk hunting here in Idaho costing the hunters some of the best elk hunting in the nation, and the state millions if not billions in revenue each year. KILL ALL CANDIAN GRAY WOLVES ON SIGHT!
O.K. First off this posting thing is a first for me. My earlier post above might have been/probably was, kind of a knee jerk reaction. Fact is I don't live in an area with wolves but I am a lifelong hunter. With that said, I felt that the spread leaned in the direction of (the poor dogs-elk- and any other thing they can catch- vs the BIG BAD WOLF)hence my comment of get over it. Thats what they do. Having read some of the additional post I can see where lack of control over the population could be a problem. The downside is not the animals themselves it is the politics. The anti hunters vs the BIG BAD MEN WITH GUNS!!! It's a difficult call, maybe hunting is a solution. In any case having read some of your reactions I'll kindly amend my earlier post and say hopefully some kind of solution can be worked out. I stand corrected.
I would think that wolves would consume the entire carcass like the yotes do around here. Some of the animals were mangled that looked more like a domestic dog attack (i.e. phohto 7). I realize that some animals were recovered shortly after the attack. I am not referring to those pictures.
Lots of good posts but have you ever tryed to talk to anti-hunters about anything? Those people won't be bothered by factual arguments and common sense. They have sappy pictures and sad music. Their views and philosophies are based on pure emotion and they are blinded by it. I even had one on youtube try to tell me that deer hunting makes the population go up because they have more offspring to compensate those killed by hunters. How do you go about defeating or convincing people like that of the facts and what needs to be done? Wolves aren't the only predators that need to learn to fear humans. Bears need a good dose of leadicillin too.
Wolves are pests and should be treated as rats.Exterminate the critters.
I am all for having a short Hunting season on Wolves, just to try and keep population down. I am very sorry for the Dogs that were killed, I know what it is to have a perfect Dog and actually loving the animal. I am not sure how close Wolves are here in Colorado, I live in the forest so I see alot of animals come and go.
Does anyone have stats on Wolves in Colorado?
As much as I hate seeing the dogs hurt what really bugs me is the elk carcasses that are barely chewed on; it looks like joy kills that in the 90s environmentalist said couldn't happen. I've seen other pics from northern Idaho where its whole herd was killed and left to rot because the pack was in a killing frenzy. It also disturbs me that in my home state,Idaho, the wolves are ruining an industry, Outfitting that supports so many people and families. 100% opportunity to 40%? You actually think thats "nature?" Here's one of the reason's this is not "natural":
The term "re introduced" is a misnomer, we actually still had natives wolves, they were shy and knew to avoid humans, you only saw them if you lived in the back country, not if you were an environmentalist who went hiking every once in a while, or a noisy game warden in helicopter. The wolves they brought in to Idaho from Canada were a different subspecies, a more aggressive bigger subspecies. They then cross bred with our native wolves, creating packs with hybred vigor, the evening news back then had stated that the re-introduced wolves are reproducing with the native wolves at a rate above 100%. These non-native wolves are pretty much the opposite of natural, clear result of human intervention when the humans didn't research and did what they thought was ok because one wolf in North America is just like any other right?
We have WAY to many wolves for the area to support, not only that but by killing the outfitting industry its causing a loss of jobs in time when its next impossible to find a job, my mother has been looking for a year and not even McDonald's hiring right now, this is the last thing Idaho needed, as well as America in general.
All you wolf lovers will be singing a different tune once a human life is lost. I live in the east so I don't worry about wolves when I have my son outdoors hunting or fishing. Good luck to you who go in the woods out west though.
If it's natural for wolves to hunt deer, elk, and domestic dogs, exactly why is it unnatural for people to hunt wolves? Afterall, we're smarter than wolves - in all liklihood they can't comprehend the future and even if they could understand extinction they probably have no self-control over their predation on deer, elk, dogs, whatever. So I say let's hunt them in a regulated manner, in order to make wolf clothing, shoes, or even eat them (seen it done in AK). And I don't need anybody telling to stay out of the wilderness just because I think it's ok to hunt wolves in a sustainable manner...climbed Whitney and backpacked across the Sierras before I was out of high school, afterwards backpacked all over the west, Mexico, Canada, AK, hunted in CA and MT. I find there's quite a few wildlife preservationists who never really been out of the 'burbs; it is they who don't have the guts to look cruel nature square in the eyes. Having said, long live Ed Abbey and his harmonious vision of hunters and wilderness.
The wolf population in Idaho was introduced in the wrong way. Wolf packs have an order that they are supposed to adhere to. Alpha female, and alpha male are supposed to be the leaders of the pack. When you introduce random animals into the mix, none of the dogs know who is the alpha. That is when you find 25 slain elk in the snow. The wolves kill just to kill. They are not hungry, they just kill because they think they need to. If they were introduced as a whole pack, the outcome may have been different. Even humans need rules to be successful in life. The wolves in Idaho and other states that were reintroduced need to be managed by each state's fish and game. Hunting seasons, and land owner permits need to be legal. People who are not from a wolf reintroduction states should stay out of our business. Get in your hybrid and go to your kids soccer game.
I've been priviledged to be able to hunt Idaho's Frank Church Wilderness several times in the past decade. I've seen the growing detrimental impact of the "imported" wolves on the local game population and it is getting worse. Don't get me wrong, I believe the wolf has a place in the scheme of things. Nothing thrills or gets your hair standing on end like hearing a wolf's long mournful howl while you lie in your tent in the dark. But like anything else, the wolf has to be controlled and, for it's own good, the wolf has to have it's fear of man restored. With a healthy dose of fear, conflicts between the wolf and man decrease. With few conflicts, the hatred of the wolf goes down and tolerance goes up. With a controlled number of wolves, game is more evenly shared between wolf and man. As far hunting wolves goes, we simply want to do the same thing the wolf does to other wolves, bears, coyotes and lions - challenge their position as the top predator. Man is part of this whole place we call earth. We aren't interlopers or aliens. We didn't come here from another planet. Whether you believe in creation or evolution, we belong here. We have just as much right to compete to be the top predator as any other life form.
wbeasleyidaho, Garth and bat4bab are all on the same page with me. They just articulated it better! Boss
OK I will give you all a reality check. These wolve we are talking about now are NOT native wolves to this area. I am more than tire of hearing about the "poor wolf". These animals were brought in and have been breeding with the natives wolves til now we have a wolf hybrid that is almost a "super wolf" in size and aggressiveness.
What a lot of folks don't know or don't remember is alot of us for the so-called "re-introduction" of wolves and I for one knew we already had wolves! No one would listen. The media especially didn't want to follow up on the phone calls from those of us who knew about the native wolves and what we are dealing with now are NOT THEM! Whole hundreds even thousands of acres have been cleared of both elk and deer. If you love all wildlife then you better be getting worried about these herbivores! And how about our other predators who also have a right to be here? The only predator the wolf has that can kill it is Man.
yvonnelamon you need to get your facts straight. Hunters only take a small amount of there food. The wolves are in people's back yards right next to a city were people live. When you can't let your dog out into a fenced in back yard and you have a wolf problem. By opening a hnting season on wolf the impact will not be enough to even impact the wolf population. In Montana there is more wolfs then the orgional study staited to propose a hunting season. People from back east and other parts needs to butt out and let the people that live in the area manage there land. Over half of the people that are fighting this I bet will never come to a state to see them or will try to go out and find one. Everything has a place but things need to be managed including the wolf. If we stuck wolfs or Bears in central park to feed on there dogs. People woud be outraged. At one time the hole United States was wild. However with cities that has changed however maybe the wolf needs to still live there also because at one time the wolf lived there. It is the same when the wolves are in our back yard feeding on our dogs and possibly our children. People need to know the hole story not just the part they want to hear.
The wolf population may need to be controlled, but I think that individuals are misguided when they depict wolves as either, "cowardly," or as villians. They are cunning and skilled carnivores, acting on instinct and basic needs. What would domesticated animals do if we weren't feeding them?
Doomed to repeat it.
History that is.
Bleeding hearts and Sierra club need not apply.
Facts are in aggreement with all living those areas where wolf was "re introduced'
The larger Artic timber wolf species was reintroduced as opposed to the gray/red native.
Also, I like being the apex predator in the woods, because I have a very large brain and also compassion,
wolves have none.
Question, why do think wolves are killing members of their own species?
Competition, they dont like it.
Question, why were wolves run out of Ireland, Europe and Russia and the lower 48?
Answer , I dont think it was all folk tales?
Farming/livestock lifestyles dont mix with their life styles , when the whitetail and elk population run low, where do you thing they are going next?
Also, caribou was the primary target in the artic, highly migratory, elk and deer are not, so you are stuck with em until you bury them.
Please go save the whales and stay out the peoples lives in the upper midwest trying to feed the rest of us.
i'm getting sick of all you hipocrites and bleeding heart environmentalists living in a city trying to control the quality of life of those living in more rural areas. The city you live in with no wolves was wilderness once too. But because it was developed before you moved into your flat you think your opinion is valid. People and wolves dont mix thats why this preditor needs to be controlled. I live in Vegas. you can hunt coyote anytime anywhere outside city limits, no license no season because they pose a safety risk. Wolves should exist but with a healthy respect of boundary just like everyone else has to.
From the studies and reports I have done on wolves, they are a top tier predator, they are increadiby intelligent and highly adaptive, and they are highy blodthirsty and effective killers. The lower 48 states did not almost entirely eliminate the wolves by hunting and trapping. Only when poisoned bait was used was the population significantly impacted. In areas where wolves are actively hunted they are taught respect and they learn to avoid man they do not approach anything tha smells of man. The wolves reintroduced into Idaho are much larger than the wolves that were already living here. They have reproduced unfettered and have no fear of man or beast. They kill with utter impunity and wantonly destroy what were once large game populations. Are we upset that people from the other side of the continent forced these killers into our state yes, but all we can do and what we see as what we must do at this point is to teach the animals the respect they must have to be allowed to remain in our state. We who know and live here would have chosen to allow nature to remain on her course and to repopulate Idaho' wolves from our own wilderness stock and to keep under controll as we did so. Studies have shown that to have a long term effect on the coyote population 70% of the animals must be removed from and area with wolves it is 75% hunting and trapping alone can never do this. Wolves were a part of nature but man has taken over the management of the wildlife and competent mangement cannot be without being able to manage this top teir predator.
In all these places where the wolves are abundant & creating problems, they should have a hunt. It just needs to be managed so they aren't hunted back into near-extinction.
Wake up Bones and the rest of you out there that think this is just "natural". If you don't live with or near the wolves, then you don't have a clue how out of touch this recovery program is with reality. Sure, the wolves are here to stay...but their numbers have FAR exceeded the recovery quotas and they NEED to be controlled.
These oversized mongrels are decimating our herds...and no, it's not just about saving an elk so I can hunt it. It's about not having to watch a cowardly wolf pack pull the intenstines out of a birthing cow elk or harass them incessantly during the winter season until they drop from exhaustion. You don't see this on TV, nor do you want to because it upsets the image of the glorified wolf.
I for one recognize that I am on top of the food chain and I will not accept that I need to get along with or tolerate the current wolf levels. We live here and now, not 200 years ago...and I will not stay out of their "home". I'm looking forward to our first Idaho wolf season.
I gotta disagree with the statement attached to picture #7. What do you think drove north american wolves to the brink of extinction? disease??, no it was over hunting, hunting wolves is the only way to control their numbers...within reason of course.
What is wrong with you people? Wolves are wild animals and dogs are domesticated! Of course they don't stand a chance!!! You, who let your dogs go out into the wild are the killers!! Keep your dogs safe, keep them in where you know there are wild animals! Wolves have a right to be out in the wild, but if you take their food by hunting it, then they will come closer to home to find something to eat. LEAVE THEM ALONE and they won't bother you! Stay out of their home!!!!!!!!!
Living in the Bitterroot Valley of MT, I've seen the effect of the wolf population explosion. Our elk population has been decimated. We have far too many wolves now. The feds set a target goal for the number of mating pairs and their current numbers are more than double that. We need to be able to hunt the wolves now to control their numbers before our valley's elk population is lost altogether. Enough is enough.
Living in the Bitterroot Valley of MT, I've seen the effect of the wolf population explosion. Our elk population has been decimated. We have far too many wolves now. The feds set a target goal for the number of mating pairs and their current numbers are more than double that. We need to be able to hunt the wolves now to control their numbers before our elk valley's elk population is lost altogether. Enough is enough.
Sure isn't nice to see a good pet in that condition. I don't blame the Wolves but I think we're on a slippery slope with how long they need to be protected before we have a big problem. I don't know enough about the problem to say for sure either way but I hope it is being watched and influenced by the right people.
I think the point is that we should be able to hunt them.
We don't have wolves in Alabama, but we got coyote aplenty. I must admit the feature seems (wolf negative) I don't see it. They are just doing what they do. I kinda agree with Bones and Moe, if you don't like it stay inside. I'll take my chances and go if I'm in wolf country, bear country, any country for that matter. Get over the wolf issue.
And yes coyote eat young deer or anything else they can. The way it is.
Though I feel for the owners of the killed dogs, I doubt the feds have empathy or sympathy.
I don't know if it'll work, but they might try adding a couple (or more) traditional wolf hunting hounds such as Irish & Russian wolf hounds or perhaps a Mastiff to your kennel to send along on hunts.
Of course I guess having wolf hunting hound on the hunt could be illegal.
I am so tired of everybody hating on wolves, like they destroyed the natural world or something. If you send your dogs running through the woods chasing an animal, it deserves whatever happens to it, and so do you. Hunt an animal one on one, and your dogs live another day.I know it is actually a challenge that way, but I am sure you can figure it out. As far as wolves killing nature's critturs, when white men came to America, there were wolves, deer, elk, and everything else living in balance, do you really expect me to blame the wolf for what you are destroying by building your house in the elk's backyard? Please, get over it.
OK, but not sure there's really some big huge point to make here. You don't like the natural world, stay home in the suburbs. Stay in your truck. Gravity kills. Trying to breathe underwater kills.
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